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  #1   IP: 63.77.107.254
Old January 20th, 2006, 02:58 PM
ABeard ABeard is offline
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Default Puddle of Water in Basement

When it rains alot I get a puddle of water in one spot of my walkout basement. It appears to seep up through the floor. I have a grinder pump for my sewage that has not been filled around and notice the water level rising around it.

I have started to finish my basement but know I will need to address this problem before installing flooring.

Relevent Info: No sumppump (house built at top of a hill), House ~5yrs old, sealed outside (black sealer), tile tile around front and sides of foundation, poured concrete walls and floor (I was going to attach a picture but it asks for a url and it is on my harddrive - it would have show that my back wall is ~4 high of poured concrete that is below the floor, then at floor level it is studded with 2x6's)

I have a feeling the problem is with my ~4 ft underground wall. If that would help visualize, I can get some pictures that were taken during the construction if someone explains the best way to do so.

What can I do to stop this?
Thanx, Andy
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  #2   IP: 148.78.243.26
Old January 21st, 2006, 09:51 AM
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Wgoodrich Wgoodrich is offline
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Pictures are worth a thousand words. In your case pictures would be needed to see where the water is compared to outside conditions and if relevant to the sewage pit. If you will send me a couple of pictures that shows your conditions to let us see what you have I will be glad to post them on your posted question for you. To post a picture on the forum you need a storage location on the web such as often provided for you by your internet provider. Contact them to find if you have a personal storage on the web for you to post pictures on their storage web site. Then link the url address to those stored pictures found on the net pasting that url on your posted question on our forum then we can click that link to your stored pictures on the web site your internet provider provided you. If you can't get that done send a couple of pictures to my email address wgoodrich@starband.net and I will post them for you.

Good Luck

Wg
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  #3   IP: 63.77.107.254
Old January 23rd, 2006, 08:16 AM
ABeard ABeard is offline
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Default Pictures


http://www.geocities.com/andybeard/waterproof2.jpg


http://www.geocities.com/andybeard/rearfloor1-2.jpg


http://www.geocities.com/andybeard/b...tfloorplan.gif

I hope these help. The first picture should show the underground back concrete wall, waterproofing and drain tile. The second should give you perspective of the underground wall in relation to the basement floor and the slope of the land and the third should show the relative location of the grinder pump to the puddle(which reminds me - the rise in water level in the pit around the grinder pump makes it bouyant and the rubber connector gets a little out of line and it starts to stink). The puddle is just on the other side of the wall in the pictures. (The upper right hand corner of the floorplan is the corner that is shown in the pictures.) The puddle is not to scale in the floor plan (the damp looking area is ~1yd in diameter and the puddle is ~6").

Here is pic of the grinder pump in case you need it:

http://www.geocities.com/andybeard/grinderpump.jpg

Wg, your website helped me completely rewire an old house (weatherhead on down), now I hope you can help me fix my home.

Thanks, Andy

PS - I just found out my website host has a limit on data transfer (free site - you get what you pay for), so the pictures might not show up. I will email them to just in case.

Last edited by ABeard : January 23rd, 2006 at 08:34 AM.
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  #4   IP: 148.78.243.26
Old January 23rd, 2006, 08:33 PM
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Wgoodrich Wgoodrich is offline
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I see nothing wrong with your perimeter drain set up. Your grinder pump by the picture is well away from the point of the puddle. You show you puddle not even near an outside wall. This leads me to beleive you either have plumbing under your basement floor such as a water line that may be leaking or you have a leak from above through the upper main floor to the basement.

I see no other sources of the water if your puddle is away from your outside wall and any other water source in that basement.

Am I missing something in your pictures? Do you only have one small circle of water not near any outside wall?

Wg
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  #5   IP: 63.77.107.254
Old January 24th, 2006, 10:26 AM
ABeard ABeard is offline
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I do have a water line (for the outside spigot) running in that general area, not directly above, though. The only lines below the floor are the sewer line from up stairs sink that go to the grinder. I modified the floor plan to show you the water lines and where the sewer line from the upstairs sink is. The picture below shows the piping before they poured the concrete (this is looking south at the house where the other pictures were looking north) the puddle shows up about 5-10 ft to the left of the underfloor pipe on the far wall in the picture below. The only time I have noticed the spot is when we get a lot of rain. My thought was that the back wall (the one that is ~4 foot under ground is stopping the water and it builds up under the house then seeps up through the concrete and the level raises around the grinder, but my house is built on a hill and the hill continues down well past the elevation of any part of my house. If this were the case I thought I might need to dig down the expose that wall, drill through the wall and insert some drain tile. (FYI -I live in Kansas City where the ground is mostly clay, I don't know if this has any effect.) My other thought is that I need to put in a sump pump, but doesn't that require piping (ie I would need to cut concrete to lay the piping.) I'm not sure what is going on or what to do.


http://www.geocities.com/andybeard/plumbing2.jpg
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  #6   IP: 148.78.243.26
Old January 24th, 2006, 04:15 PM
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Wgoodrich Wgoodrich is offline
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If you punch through your basement floor you are inviting water below the floor to enter the home. You are in a hill side with gravity drain perimeter drain system which is the best design you can have. This will take care of your subsurface water. Now again your puddle to my knowledge is not near a wall. If you have subsurface water entering your basement it would be coming in along where the floor meets the wall of the basement. Your water is appearing not near a wall. This tells me you have a leak in your roof following along the framing lumber or you have a water line leaking. The puddle appearing after a rain may be misleading you. The earth may be obsorbing your water from a leaking pipe until the rain making the earth more wet thus less water soaked up causing the water to appear.

Water normally does not come through the concrete floor unless under pressure. The location of the puddle leads me to believe it is coming either from the pressurized water line under the floor or from within the house.

You may have to wait until it rains. Then look at the floor joists above that puddle and the basement floor from the wall to the puddle. You should be able to see water tracking from somewhere causing this puddle. If no tracking then suspect a pressurized water pipe under the floor causing water to be forced through the basment floor due to earth no longer able to obsorb the leaking water after the rain.

Take some time and do your investigative work looking after the rain or when the wet spot reappears. Look at the floor joists above and all around the wet spot that shows moisture where the water came from. This will tell you where to go from there.

Wg
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  #7   IP: 66.59.115.107
Old January 24th, 2006, 04:20 PM
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mdshunk mdshunk is offline
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This begs an obvious question... is your house under roof yet? All plumbing roof boots on? All dormer sidewall finish siding completed down over the flashings? It's pretty normal for a house still under construction to have wet spots here and there.
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  #8   IP: 66.59.115.107
Old January 24th, 2006, 04:22 PM
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I'd lay some plastic on the floor to determine if the water is coming from over or under the concrete once and for all.
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  #9   IP: 63.77.107.254
Old January 25th, 2006, 10:03 AM
ABeard ABeard is offline
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House is ~5 years old. I'm about 95% sure it is coming from below, not much above it to drip from. The dining area is directly above the spot with the kitchen directly above where the stairs end (sink ~10ft away).
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  #10   IP: 148.78.243.26
Old January 25th, 2006, 07:22 PM
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Wgoodrich Wgoodrich is offline
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Never take anything for granted. Example I have found water leak through a roof run down the rafter to the wall then down the wall past the next floor down to the basement ceiling then follow floor joist to a joint and drip to the basement floor. Water often adheres to the wood and makes a person believe a leak has to be at that wet spot yet find later the chimney leaked at the peak half way across the house with dry cielings directly below the leaking chimney.

MdShunk has a very good idea. The plastic will declare next time the water appears if found under the plastic leaking up from under, if found over the plastic leak from above.

One thing I have not touched on that we have often found is a possible field tile cut when the house basement walls were put in and never routed around the house then years or months later that tile drilled a hole through the earth and popped up half way around the house with a constant stream coming above ground. If you have a cut tile that did not get routed around the house and reconnected this may be flooding under the concrete and perking up a weak spot in the concrete floor.

You need to do the investigation we spoke of in previous replies and track where the water if coming from its source. Md hit a very good investigative trick on the subject. I support his suggestion strongly to help solve the puzzle.

Good Luck

Wg
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