Self Help Forums

Go Back   Self Help Forums > Repair > Building Construction - Existing Home
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts

Building Construction - Existing Home Building Construction Repair / Remodeling Ideas and Problem Solving Solutions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1   IP: 205.210.252.10
Old December 12th, 2003, 09:52 AM
*gbeichho
 
Posts: n/a
Default Concrete, Mortar and Grout setting times

#10: Concrete, Mortar and Grout setting times Author: gbeichho, Location: Toronto, Canada Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2003 2:36 pm
----
I'm glad your back up!

Quick questions about Concrete, Mortar and Grout setting/curing times.

My real question is:

1) How long before I can put a load on a concrete footing? (temperatures right now hover between -5 to +7 degrees C.
2) How long before I can put a load on a block wall (mortared and grouted)?
3) How long do I have to protect my mortar from freezing and rain?

4) Once I've completed my new blocked foundation wall (2 blocks high... it's only about 12 inches below grade. Do I need to backfill it over the winter? I was hoping to keep it open so I could inspect it in the spring to see how it fared over the winter.

5) Also, we exposed a couple tree roots (but they weren't cut), do they need to be buried over the winter?

Thanks,

George

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

#16: Author: Wgoodrich, Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2003 7:05 pm
----
YOU SAID;
1) How long before I can put a load on a concrete footing? (temperatures right now hover between -5 to +7 degrees C.

REPLY;
The footer is in contact with earth that is still not freezing. This would come into consideration during the drying and curing time. My guess is that considering you plan to lay block foundaiton two rows you should be able to lay the block the following day without concern. By the time the block is cured the footer should give the time for the footer to obtain strength to frame on.

YOU SAID;
2) How long before I can put a load on a block wall (mortared and grouted)?

REPLY;
This motar is exposed. If the weather hovers around the freezing mark then you should insulate that foundation or heat the moisture out of the motar with a torch. You are not that cold yet and probably is reaching above freezing during the day. Some bales of straw may work as insulation during the curing time. About a week you should be out of concern of freezing on the motar.


YOU SAID;
3) How long do I have to protect my mortar from freezing and rain?

REPLY;
Rain should not be a concern. If warm in the day as discribed above the thoughts above should apply. From the temps you are quoting I am suspecting the day to reach above freezing at this time in your area. If not let me know and we will regroup.

YOU SAID;
4) Once I've completed my new blocked foundation wall (2 blocks high... it's only about 12 inches below grade. Do I need to backfill it over the winter? I was hoping to keep it open so I could inspect it in the spring to see how it fared over the winter.

REPLY;
I would back fill it as soon as you can. However putting 1" styrofoam sheets around the outside of the foundation much like required to be installed inside your crawl space only required 2" styrofoam inside, then back filling with dirt would be better. Then install a 2" styrofoam horizontally at least 12" out all the way around the footer should be installed if the bottom of that footer is not below freeze line in your area. A fresh backfill will have moisture crystals in it when freshly back filled. These moisture crystals will remain the entire winter. These moisture crystal in your fresh back filled dirt will telegraph frost directly to the bottom of the footer and then invite the frost to pass under your footer causing a heave damaging your footer. The horizontal styrofoam 12" out around the footer will protect from this damage blocking the frost away from your footer and foundation. If you don't perform the insulation and back filling in your area you stand to expose yourself to long term damange of that masonry foot print.

YOU SAID;
5) Also, we exposed a couple tree roots (but they weren't cut), do they need to be buried over the winter?

REPLY;

A tree root exposed through the winter will freeze most likely killing that root. This would depend on size of root compared to size of tree. If this tree root is a main feeder to that tree and it freezes you stand a chance of half that tree being dead in the spring due to the damaged tree root.

Just my thoughts

Wg

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

#30: Author: gbeichho, Location: Toronto, Canada Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2003 12:06 am
----
Temperatures are staying between +2 and +5 (C) during the day, and dropping to about -2 (C) at night for the next week. I plan to do the final mortar and concrete pouring Thurs/Friday this week.

We will use warmed water for the mortar and Grout. The work we did 2 days (see picture) ago has apparently dried and the blocks have dried under slightly warmer conditions. We are tarping off the wall for the time being overnight.

Just to confirm though, I should be able to load the cottage onto the new footing and block wall after about one week? (assuming above zero C temps during the day)

Regarding the back fill, please see diagram I drew to make sure I understood what you suggested. As a note, the cottage is often not used throughout the winter, so the crawlspace won't be heated from the building. (it will this year, but most years it won't).

As for the tree roots they may pose a bit of a problem. I suppose I could run them under the foam. They are large roots (see pictures). We're making big spaces in the block wall for them. Even after we backfill on the outside (they'll be well buried), the part travelling through the block wall won't be covered with that much dirt. Also, the part in the crawlspace won't be filled up to grade, because I wanted to leave space for me to crawl around and make repairs in the future.

Any thoughts? Can I insulate the root inside the block wall? How deep should it be under the crawlspace, it is quite dry underneath.

Thanks, George

Insulation diagram - as I understand it!



See Exposed roots running over Footing > 2 inches diameter -- can I insulate these going through the wall?



Another View of the Roots from Behind -- note that HUGE rock which we couldn't lift/winch out so we dug a bigger hole behind it and pushed it back out of the way!


A picture of my new blocked wall -- Now I'm a mason too!!!
Reply With Quote
  #2   IP: 205.210.252.10
Old December 12th, 2003, 09:52 AM
*Wgoodrich
 
Posts: n/a
Default

#57: Author: Wgoodrich, Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2003 7:19 pm
----
The tree roots in the picture are not main roots that will hurt a large tree. Cut them off. Then put a plastic jug over the end of the cut root to prevent that root from heading for the founation again.

A root that size 10 years from now will grow to damage you foundation. Cut it out. No harm should occur to the tree.

The styrofoam insulation board in your case being this house jacked up without perimeter insulatijon on the opposite side of the structure should not be insulated either. Keep an equal potential from both sides of hte house so if one side heaves then the other side will heave equal.

A week should be enough drying time in the temp you are speaking. The temp is hovering freeze but not low enough to cause damage.

Just let it set a week to cure and set your house down.

That rock if you rented an electric hammer chisel would give up rather easily. Looks to be a clay mix type rock not that hard to bust up and get rid of if you like. Suspect you will find that rock to be rather soft in nature.

Good Luck

Wg

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

#72: Author: gbeichho, Location: Toronto, Canada Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2003 9:03 pm
----
I don't know about the roots. They are at least 2" in diameter and it is well within 5 feet of the tree itself. I was reading a fair bit about roots like this, and I understood it could both kill part of the tree and also result in a structural weakness on that one side.

I found this from a municipality:


Quote:
For trees measuring greater than 12" in diameter, soil excavation work or root cutting shall not occur closer than the distance measured by the circumference of the tree or a maximum distance of six feet. Soil excavation work is permitted closer than the distance parameters established above, provided all the excavation of soil is done by hand, shovel, or auger, and no roots greater than 2" in diameter are cut.

If any root larger than 2 inches in diameter is cut or removed from one side of the tree, the crown should be reduced on the same side.


The big difference between this side of the cottage and the other side is that the grade is lower on the other side. Additionally, the grade on the other side slopes away from the house, while on this side, it slopes into the house. I'm thinking it might be prudent to insulate this side given that it will receive a lot more moisture than the other side. I did some research after you mentionned it and apparently this is common practice in Scandinavia where they have many buildings on footers that are above the frost line.

As for the rock, it is very deceiving. Most of the rock in the area has a very high iron content making them brittle on the surface (where rusting has occured) but very hard after you've gotten through the surface. We were using a chisel and sledge hammer on that huge immovable rock and we weren't even able to make a dent in it once the surface came off.

Regards, George

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

#142: Author: Wgoodrich, Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2003 2:28 pm
----
A growing tree root in a few years can destroy a solid concrete footing. If you plan to leave that root in your foundation or footing make sure to create a minimum hole size 2.5 times that root's diameter to allow for growth. This will give you about a decade before that root starts damaging that footer of foundation.

The goal of insulating or not insulating a footer when repairing an existing footer is equal potential. You are there, look at the conditions and think frost heave in harsh winter. Try and make your repair design so the equal potential of heave is as equal as you can.

Good Luck

Wg

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

#153: Author: joed, Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2003 8:14 pm
----
Which do you like better, the tree or the new foundation? I would not hesitate to cut the root. I think the house is more important the the tree. The tree will most likely survive just fine without the root. The foundation will not survive if leave the root.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

#315: Author: gbeichho, Location: Toronto, Canada Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2003 5:26 pm
----
I really do like the tree (it is a beautiful Oak which lends a lot of shade). Everything I read about these types of roots warned about the structural integrity of the tree when a root was cut on one side. I don't want the tree falling on my cottage .

I think that we have left a good amount of space in the blocked wall that will allow the roots to grow to more than double their current size before causing any problems. I also don't think the tree will expand significantly in that direction since there is little to no moisture under that area. I can also easily monitor the root's progress from underneith and if it starts to impede on the block wall, it can be trimmed at that time.

I think the pictures don't do the root size justice. They are more than 2" in diameter.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

#321: Author: joed, Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2003 6:51 pm
----
Looking at the picture again, in the upper picture of the outside with the root, it looks like the root is damaged and the 'bark' has been skinned off. If that is true, might as well cut it. It's like stripping the bark on a tree branch. It will die anyway.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

#322: Author: gbeichho, Location: Toronto, Canada Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2003 7:15 pm
----
No, we were careful not to damage the root. It still has a bit of cement/mortar drippings on it. That is probably what you see.

I was doing reading on an Arborists site that you can actually trim quite a bit off of those kinds of roots without doing severe damage. Something like up to 1/4 of the root can be shaved off if done properly.
Reply With Quote
  #3   IP: 63.139.163.194
Old December 14th, 2003, 09:21 PM
gbeichho gbeichho is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 91
Default

Well, we lowered the cottage onto the wall this weekend. No major problems at all. It went very fast. Plus, all the doors and windows survived just fine and we all have our limbs intact!

We did bolt the sill plate to the wall in the end. We notched it to get it to slide in.

I've posted some pictures of the final wall before it gets covered. We only have two issues:

1) Part of the cottage wouldn't go down to level (it's sitting .5" above the wall on the far corner). We're assuming it's been out of shape for a while (due to lack of support beam) and will settle in a short while. Not a big issue

2) The ground is now completely frozen so we've got an issue with the backfill (plus it rained like crazy before it froze so the dirt to be put back was quite wet until it froze).

Right now we took some very dry dirt excavated from under the cottage and placed it on the footing so we can angle the styrofoam. But I'm not sure how we're going to backfill. You can see from the pictures that it's nicely tarped off. I wonder if we can leave it like that until spring?

George

Finished Wall (the dirt on the footer is the dry stuff from under the cottage)


Finished Concrete From over Immovable Rock!


Work Area
Reply With Quote
Reply






Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2002 - QuinStreet, Inc.
http://www.selfhelpforums.com