blown insulation

[urbs]

Question on Insulation.
I have recently purchased a cap cod brick home built in the 40’s and last winter in one of the bedrooms there was an 11 degree temperature difference from the middle of the room to the west wall. There are double hung vinyl windows against that wall, but that was not the major problem. I had to tear down the west wall and found that they had put 1 inch furring strips for the main out side wall. There was a 1 inch gap between the furring strips from the outside brick wall, were the insulation should have been. And the furring strip. I was surprised to see they used furring 1x2 strips to frame an outside wall. I need to put insulation in the dinning room which is along the west wall also. I don’t want to tear down the wall, so I was thinking about putting the loose Cellulose insulation blown into the wall. Is there enough room between the walls to put blown insulation there? And I have seen pictures of putting blown insulation from the bottom. There is a small amount of the original vermiculite type insulation in the wall. Would it be better to put the insulation from the top or still from the bottom with some of the vermiculite still in the wall?

[Wgoodrich]

You can only do the following if you do not have knob and tube wiring. knob and tube wiring is forbidden to be enveloped by insulation at all.

If you don't want to have more than a 2" outside wall which is not a good thing, I would remove the window and door trims only from the walls. Then take a hammer and lightly hit in a bouncing fashion between the studs so that your plaster falls off the wall without damaging your lathing any more than you have to. Then I would remove three lathes in the middle of the wall. Then remove a slat at the bottom of the wall and let the old insulation flow out of the wall. Then replace that bottom slat as best you can. Then blow in celulose fiber into this wall filling up the wall with the blowen in insulation to where those three slats were removed. then nail the slats back on the wall as they were. If you damaged some slats that is fine just use pieces of slats to fill in the gap at the studs for backing. If you can get the slats back on then that is better for strength of the finished product. Once you have put the slat back on then staple a whole sheet of bisquine from a roll of bisquine from the floor to the ceiling and the full length of the wall but three slats short of the top letting that part of the bixquine hang down for the time being. Then remove a couple of the slats at the top of the wall and blow the insulation into the studs to the top of the wall. Then replace the top slats as best you can and staple your bisquine to the top of hte wall.

Then install 3/8" drywall on the wall with slats as backing creating the strength of that wall covering same as 1/2" drywall normally would do.

Then tape and bed, sand and paint or wall paper as you desire.

This will give you both as good an insulation value as you can get on this existing wall and create a vapor barrier at the same time same as new construction.

If it were me I would strip the plaster and lathe from that existing 2" wall and then frame a new 2x4 wall against the inside of that existing 2" wall and then use friction style batt insulation without paper barrier then install the bisquine then install 1/2" drywall, tape and bed and sand then paint or wall paper to desire.

If you have knob and tube wiring or old plumbing while this new wall is open you could install new wiring, heat ducts, plumbing creating new mechanicals on all walls you have open in about a days extra work and inexpensive material cost. Then you have a new construction wall.

You actually could do the whole room this way and have a warm room with new mechanicals if you wish.

Stripping the entire room and using a new shovel you can shovel out the old plaster through a window into a pick up truck in about 3 hours per room. Then you have new constructions standards when finished.

If you use the lathing and use 3/8" drywall you will find the finished product out the same distance as the old wall allowing you to renail your window and door trim as if it was never removed. You also have the chance to stuff insulation around that window to stop draft leaks at the same time.

Try one room, might find yourself proud of what you did and shocked at how easy it was done.

Good Luck

Wg

[urbs]

I may have not described my walls very well. I think I know what you are describing, but that is not the way my walls are set up. I don’t have the lathing going horizontal over the studs. Let me try to clear it up. When I took down the wall in the bedroom, First of all the wall was about 1 inch thick. It had 1/2 plaster board and then a 1/2 hard rock like board over that wall to equal about a 1 inch thick. They connected these to the furring strips that were against the brick outside wall. The furring strips 1x2 are the studs. There is only a 1 inch gap from the brick wall to the inside wall board.
When I tore down the bedroom wall it was a huge undertaking. I am trying not to do that in the dinning room, but I just want to add insulation in between without tearing down the wall. If that is my only option to tear down the wall, I’ll reframe it using the 2x4’s.

[Wgoodrich]

Why not strip the walls to the 2x2 studs and then frame new 2x4 walls and stand them up against the inside edge of the 2x2 studs. Build a wall within a wall the go to normal insulation and vapor barrier. YOu cost of new studs making a 2x4 wall stood up inside the old 2x2 walls will give you then insulation value of a new home and you only lose about 6" total of room space. Much easier, faster, more efficient.

Sounds like you have an older brick home and they used 2 x 2 as furring strips to make a finished product inside. This is often done but limits insulation values. THis building style is an older brick home that used to have brick exposed inside and was later refinished using the 2 x 2s a furring strips for a finished product but not as a supporting wood structure, cosmetic only. If this is what you have ignore the 2 x 2s and frame up 2x4 walls, stand them up around the two outside walls of hte room, Then install friction batt fiberglass insulation without paper backing then staple the plastic sheet over the whole new wall and insulation then drywall. This will give you new construction values. Also will give you a wall you can drill horizontally and rewire while the studs are open and before you insulate disconnecting the old receptacle wiring and installing the new wiring using the old power feed to the new wiring. Cost shouldn't be more than about 50 dollars and you have new boxes receptacles etc. in that room.

If your home was a brick home and the 2 x 2s were furrning strips only for finishing the insides of hte brick then you may buy 1 1/2" thick blue board. [styrofoam board easily cut to fit between the old 2 x 2s] Then fit the blue board against the brick between the 2x2s and then bisquine as a vapor barrier adn drywall.

Hope this helps

Wg

[macstr]

He's my take on it.

Leave everything the way it is and frame out 2x4 metal stud walls. Put them up against the existing wall. Rewire the new wall, insulate and drywall that.

You don’t need 2x4 lumber because it is not a structural wall. Metal studs are cheaper and you will never have to worry about nail pops because they do not shrink or twist. (And they are very easy to work with once you learn to wear a pair of gloves so you don’t slice up your knuckles. )

Second thought is to put the 1 1/2 inch blue board that Wgoodrich mentioned up against the existing wall. Then frame out a new wall using 1' metal studs, they are even cheaper and easier. Wire and drywall that. (only gains you a 1/2 inch)

I may be wrong but I don’t think you are going to be able to blow insulation into a 1' space.

If you put a 2x4 metal or wood wall up against the existing wall you will only loose 2' of room compared to tearing it out and putting the 2x4 wall up. But you gain the insulation you are looking for without having the tear out the old wall. Not to mention the fact that you can run your outlets where you want them (within code) and any other wires you may want/need. (cable, speakers)

Good Luck and Let us know how it turns out.

[Wgoodrich]

The suggestions that MattC suggested is a fine idea. However I wanted to warn you against a common and hazardous mistake often made with metal studs. If you use metal studs and use Romex [nonmetallic sheathed cables] it does meet NEC rules but you must ensure that you use pop in plastic grommets where you pass through the metal studs. The metal studs can cut into you Romex and cause a short. This is not hard to do, just pick up some pop in plastic grommets with your metal studs and pop them into the studs where you pass you wires through those metal studs.

Good Luck

Wg

[macstr]

Good point.

I had to get them from an electrical supply shop. You can get the studs at Home Depot or Lowes but they do not carry the pop in's. I have complained to my HD many times about this. They said it was because they were not selling enough. I told him it was there fault for not telling people they needed them when they bought the studs. McDonalds increased sales by the Millions just by asking "Would you like fries with that?"

$0.29 each at the supply shop.

[Anonymous]

I have redone 3 rooms in a house up here in Canada with a similar strapping on brick ( no studs ) . As messy as it was I tore out the old plaster, lath and strapping and built new 2x3 walls . I set the new studs off the brick about an inch to create a thermal break and allow easier install of new wiring. Insulated with fiberglass , vapour barrier and new drywall.As recommended I have rewired ( right from the breaker panel ) with new romex , boxes, some pot lights , installed new windows , sanded ,refinished the old oak floors and put in new trim,baseboards. The new rooms are a stand out. The home owner can't beleive the new look . Of course this house is in a trendy neighbourhood , and the investment well worth it .
However the advice given here about wasting time , blowing in insulation ,fishing tapes for wires etc is right on the money. Do the job right the first time .

[Wgoodrich]

Big Al, if you have studs behind your plaster and lathe next time bounce the hammer getting the plaster to fall leaving the lathing. The strip out in the middle to install your new wiring, plumbing etc. inside the walls. Then blow in insulation up to where the lathe was removed and install bixquined up from the baseboard left in place up to the top of the wall down three slats, then put the lathe strips back and remove two lathes at the top of the wall. Blow the walls to the top, then replace the lathe and staple up the bisquine sheet to the top of the wall. Use 3/8" drywall in place of the 1/2" drywall using the lathe as the back support to equal the strength of the 1/2" drywall. Reinstall your window trim. You should find the 3/8" drywall will come out finished even with where the plaster was. You have new construction product with half the work and cost.

Try one room for an experiment. You should be surprised with the ease and speed of doing the job that way.

Thanks for the support in your comment. Many see this as way too much work. If they tried it both ways they would never go back to fishing wires and getting best they can get with existing wall and have new product quality.

Good Luck

Wg

[Anonymous]

Wg,

That idea sounds good but I haven't found any exterior walls with studs yet in this house. So far I've done the kitchen , an adjoining breakfast room and the master bedroom. Next is the living rm and another adjoining sunroom .
My big project though is a cottage to be built this spring. Any ideas?