Number of outlets

[Anonymous]

Posted by: Mike (Old Forum Transfer)
22 Aug 2002 12:53 pm

This is my first post. I am excited that I have found this forum and I would like your help. I am wiring two rooms in my basement. One is a rec room and the other a Home Theater. My Home Theater equipment is wired on its own 15 amp circuit but in both rooms I have numerous convenience outlets and have 18 in each room that will be on their own 15 amp circut breaker. Is 18 too many to have on one circuit breaker?
I am also installing 18 recessed cans (75 watts each) in the rec room and would like to put them in three zones with each zone having their own switch. Will I need more than two 20 amp crcuit breakers for this? The Home Theater is placed in zones with a Lutron Grafix Eye 3106 so that room should be Ok on one 20 amp breaker.
I only have one empty slot in my 200 amp service panel. How can I add these other breakers to it?

Thanks in advance for your help.
Mike

[Anonymous]

Posted by: Wgoodrich
Posted: 22 Aug 2002 01:41 pm

YOU SAID;
This is my first post. I am excited that I have found this forum and I would like your help.

REPLY;
Don't miss the most important part of our web site and that is the many articles that you can read specialized to the projects being done for example wiring a service, wiring a new home, wiring a detached garage, wiring a pool and many more with pictures in the 2002 articles included so you can see an example of what you are reading. To see the do it yourself help articles for wiring your projects just look at the top of this page on the right and click on that electronic signature that will take you to our main web page to way more information for your use and best of all for free with no hidden intents involved. We love it when we here we are doing good ! thank you for your comments !

YOU SAID;
I am wiring two rooms in my basement. One is a rec room and the other a Home Theater. My Home Theater equipment is wired on its own 15 amp circuit but in both rooms I have numerous convenience outlets and have 18 in each room that will be on their own 15 amp circut breaker. Is 18 too many to have on one circuit breaker?

REPLY;

The code [minimum safety standards] says you are fine. Best wiring ideas in my mind is to advise you to install at least two dedicated 15 amp receptacle branch circuits with several double duplex double gang boxes for two duplexes in each box and say 3 double gang receptacle boxes per each 15 amp dedicated branch circuits serving you electronic equipment being installed in the home theater room. This will give you enough plugs to accept the many different electronic equipment needing to plug in. These electronic equipment does not pull much load but many plugs will need to be plugged in. Remember also that electronic equipment as you have are very sensitve to garbage on the electric lines that will cause interference in your viewing and listening pleasures. Installing two branch circuits behind all this electronic equipment allows you to change circuits possible eliminating any interference caused by a nearby electronic equipment. Just advice not required by Code.

The general use receptacle throughout your two rooms may be intermixed with other receptacles if you like but I would keep the electronic equipment on those to isolated branch circuits off the general use receptacles that you don't know what will be plugged into them in the future. The NEC says yes you could put all 18 receptacles on a circuit but advise limiting say 12 on a circuit splitting your general use receptacles onto two more different branch circuits.

YOU SAID;
I am also installing 18 recessed cans (75 watts each) in the rec room and would like to put them in three zones with each zone having their own switch. Will I need more than two 20 amp crcuit breakers for this?

REPLY;
if you put 100 watt bulbs in all 18 recessed cans you would be pulling a load of 1800 watts on a 20 amp 2400 watt circuit and you would not be overloading that circuit. One 20 amp 12 awg copper general lighting branch circuit can serve this total load with no problem in capability to carry that load and you would be within the rules of the NEC. You have a couple of concerns with this design that you should consider. If you put all lights in that basement on one lighting branch circuit and that breaker tripped or a connection on that circuit failed you entire basement would go dark without light. If you wish to install dimmers then you should split these 18 recessed lights to three dimmer switch controls but these dimmers may be on that same branch circuit if you like. Problem is most dimmers are 600 watt maximum rated. All lights on one dimmer would well exceed that 600 watt limited watts of that dimmer.

Remember your general use convenience receptacles along the wall are also general lighting branch circuits. Why not put half the general use receptacles on a branch circuit with a third of the recessed tanks on that same receptacle circuit say 1/3 of the receptacels and 1/3 of the lights on one circuit using three 15 or 20 amp branch circuits serving these lights and convenience receptacles? This would split up and eliminate the problem of the limited dimming ratings, the possibillity of the basement suddenly becoming dark, and balance the loads evenly.

YOU SAID;
The Home Theater is placed in zones with a Lutron Grafix Eye 3106 so that room should be Ok on one 20 amp breaker.

REPLY;
The Grafix lighting I need the amp rating on the name plate to know how to tell you what you should do concerning what branch circuit that lighting eye should be on. DO NOT PUT ANY LIGHTS ON WITH YOUR ELECECTRONIC CIRCUITS TO LIMIT ANY INTERFERENCE TO YOUR VIEWING PLEASURES.

YOU SAID;
I only have one empty slot in my 200 amp service panel. How can I add these other breakers to it?

REPLY;
Look on the inside of your panel cover. Look on the label where you branch circuits are supposed to be identified. Look to see if the circuit numbers are like this 1a, 1b, 3a, 3b, etc. If any of those circuits are listed as "A" and "B" then you may install 1/2 sized or piggy back breakers creating two branch circuit breakers in the place of one full sized breaker that may be there now. If you have the "A" and "B" disignation on your label on some of your branch circuits listed then you have more branch circuits available that you thought.

Let us know what you find

Good Luck

Wg

[Anonymous]

Posted by: Mike
Posted: 22 Aug 2002 02:29 pm

Thank you so much for your reply. You have suggested things that I would have never thought of on my own and I am grateful. I will follow your suggestions.

Thanks again,
Mike

[Anonymous]

Posted by: Mike
Posted: 22 Aug 2002 02:47 pm

W.G.
I checked my panel and unfortunately it is not labeled as you had suggested so I guess piggyback breakers will not work. Does that mean that I will have to install another panel beside the exsisting one? If so, is there instruction on this site to help me with the process?

If I determine that a couple of existing circuits are not being maximized, can I put the two together into a single breaker? Can two wires fit in a single breaker?

Thanks again,
Mike

[Anonymous]

Posted by: Wgoodrich
Posted: 22 Aug 2002 05:07 pm

You are not allowed to wires in a lug designed for only one conductor such as most breakers are built.

However if you map out your branch circuits you most likely will find many circuits that are underutilized if your house is wired like many other homes. It is very common that people overwire where they don't need it and under wire where they do need it. That is one reason that I wrote the wiring a dwelling article on our web site. It explains the circuits that use a lot and circuits that use very little power. Read that article. It is designed for new homes but most can be applied to older homes when redesigning your wiring in that older home. A lot of good sense ideas that most don't think about.

First thing you should do is go to the following link that provides a format for you to calculate what the NEC says is a minimum service size required for your home. Then you will know if you need a subpanel or a large main service entirley. Do the demand load using that format. Then compare what the NEC says is the minimum size service required to serve your home. This will tell you what you have to work with and allow you to make an informed decision as to whether you need to add a sub panel slave of the existing main service panel or if you need to increase the size of your service.

http://www.homewiringandmore.com/hom...DmdCalc02.html

Remember these links and much more info is avaialable if you surf our web site from the main page.

Now that you have done the demand load calculation you know if your service is adequate for your home in amp rating. IF your existing main service is rated in amps larger than the minimum service size you found in your demand load calculation then before you install that sub panel read the following article on branch circuit design of a new dwelling again this can also be used concerning wiring design in an older home to upgrade your branch circuit wiring either by combining lightly loaded branch circuits or splitting the branch circuit that is overloaded. Once you read the following article you will know which rooms are light loads and which rooms are heavy load when it comes to receptacles and lighting. Then you may be able to combine a few circuits and delay the need for installing a sub panel because you gained some branch circuits by combining those branch circuits. Remember I said earlier that you can not put two wires in a lug of one breaker but you may wire nut two hot wires of two branch circuits to a pigtail and connect that pigtail to on branch circuit breaker gaining an openiing of that unused breaker you created.

http://www.homewiringandmore.com/hom...l/newdwel.html

Once you have done your homework let us know what you learned and could come up with to accomplish your goals.

Good Luck

Wg

Check

[Anonymous]

Posted by: Mike
Posted: 22 Aug 2002 05:29 pm

Thanks Warren. It looks like I have got some reading to do.

Mike

[Anonymous]

Posted by: Wgoodrich
Posted: 22 Aug 2002 05:48 pm

Mike happy reading then come back in with any more questions that arise from your readings.

Hope you enjoy

Wg