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Electrical Code - CANADIAN 2002 Version - Commercial or Residential for CANADA

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  #1   IP: 216.26.204.90
Old October 31st, 2012, 08:27 AM
bazagee bazagee is offline
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Default CGFI kitchen outlets - Ontario

To comply with the code it stats that with 2m radius (59" approx) of a kitchen sink, a receptacle must be protected by CGFI circuit. This precludes using a 15 amp split using 14/3 wire. It does say that you can run a 20amp circuit and use a 20amp CGFI receptacle. Which would require a 12/2 wire to each box. I'm paraphrasing so I might be a little off, but you get the idea if you know the code I'm speaking of.

My question: the 20amp CGFI in the receptacle is not split so back at the panel you have a standard 20amp breaker. 20amps supplied to a combined 2 plugins. Whereas you can supply 15amps to each separate plug in a slit format.

Is there such a beast as a double pole (maybe not the correct terminology) CGFI panel breaker that would allow you to put in a standard split circuit? In my case I have a new Siemens panel.

TIA!
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  #2   IP: 130.76.32.213
Old October 31st, 2012, 09:50 AM
suemarkp suemarkp is offline
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Yes there is, and that is exactly what you need (a Siemens double pole 15A GFCI circuit breaker). Sit down when you see the price though... This has been the classic implementation in Canadian kitchens for a while. Recently they created the 20A GFCI non-split solution, but that does you no good if you have #14 wire.
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  #3   IP: 216.26.204.90
Old October 31st, 2012, 10:54 AM
bazagee bazagee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suemarkp View Post
Yes there is, and that is exactly what you need (a Siemens double pole 15A GFCI circuit breaker). Sit down when you see the price though... This has been the classic implementation in Canadian kitchens for a while. Recently they created the 20A GFCI non-split solution, but that does you no good if you have #14 wire.
Thanks - wow did I get this post wrong on so many fronts.... A CGFI?? and the wrong panel maker! Should have said Federal Pioneer Stab lok.

So to confirm, you are saying that it is within code to use a double pole 15amp GFCI breaker in the panel and run 14/3 to a split receptacle. That would satisfy ESA code?

I guess it comes down to whether your think one 20amp circuit will be enough in the kitchen or go with the standard 15amp split for appliance needs? What would your experience suggest?

Thanks for the feedback.
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  #4   IP: 50.135.128.55
Old October 31st, 2012, 07:44 PM
suemarkp suemarkp is offline
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The US requires 20A circuits in the kitchen (only need two circuits for all the kitchen counter receptacles). Most kitchen appliances draw around 10A, so two on a 20A is fine. Most cycle on and off, so you may even be able to do three appliances on a circuit especially if they are around 8 amps each.

I'm not sure how your code works for number of total circuits in the kitchen, or if you can have more than 1 receptacle per circuit. The double pole GFCI breaker is the code compliant way to do a kitchen split wired receptacle.

Federal Pioneer makes them.
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  #5   IP: 205.210.17.241
Old November 1st, 2012, 07:52 AM
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joed joed is offline
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The distance is 1.5 m from the sink.
20 amp non split should be fine for your counter.
If this is new wiring I would install the 20 amp GFCI receptacle near the sink. Away from the sink it's your choice.

You will be looking at $60-$70 for a double pole 15 amp GFCI.

Last edited by joed : November 1st, 2012 at 07:55 AM.
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  #6   IP: 99.246.104.139
Old November 1st, 2012, 12:38 PM
Eddy Current Eddy Current is offline
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Only need a GFI near the sink if you are installing a new circuit or relocating the old plug. If you are just replacing the receptacle you can leave it as a split 15amp circuit even if it is within 1.5 meters of a sink.

New codes only apply to new installations.
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  #7   IP: 173.213.243.64
Old November 6th, 2012, 11:16 PM
MichelCleark MichelCleark is offline
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Default CGFI kitchen outlets - Ontario

Does it mean that when a sink is 1.5m far then 15amp circuit can be sufficient? Right. I place my kitchen sink of white kitchen cabinets near to a circuit and it is hardly 1m from a sink. Is that possible to replace my old circuit of 15amp and what new circuit should I need?
Quality kitchen cabinets

Last edited by MichelCleark : February 8th, 2013 at 02:11 AM.
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  #8   IP: 205.210.17.241
Old November 7th, 2012, 05:50 AM
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If the new receptacle is within 1.5m. of the sink it needs to be GFCI protected.
You have two options.
1. It can be a 20 amp circuit with a GFCI receptacle. 12/2 cable required to the panel.
2. It can be a split wired 15 amp receptacle with a two pole 15 amp GFCI breaker in the panel. 14/3 cable is required for this option.

Last edited by joed : December 19th, 2012 at 08:23 PM.
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  #9   IP: 74.56.146.215
Old December 16th, 2012, 07:02 AM
doyonger doyonger is offline
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Default CEC 2012 : 26-712 Receptacles for dwelling units

If there are no outlets within 1,5 m. of the sink it will not meet the requirement of the article 26-712 (d) (iii) of the Canadian Electrical Code 2012.

Therefore, avoiding the 20 amp GFCI receptacle is not really an option. And, since a gfci outlet is a lot cheaper than a gfci breaker I would not recommend installing a regular 15 amp split with a GFCI breaker.


Canadian Elictrical code 2012 :

26-712 Receptacles for dwelling units :

(d) in dwelling units there shall be installed in each kitchen :

(iii) a sufficient number of receptacles (5-15R split or 5-20R) along the wall at counter work surfaces (excluding sinks, built-in equipment, and isolated work surfaces less than 300 mm long at the wall line) so that no point along the wall line is more than 900 mm from a receptacle measured horizontally along the wall line;
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