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Electrical Code - USA Commercial or Residential 1999 / 2002 / 2005 versions - for UNITED STATES

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  #1   IP: 74.232.15.177
Old October 1st, 2010, 07:45 PM
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jonfisher45 jonfisher45 is offline
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Unhappy Crimping sleeves or wire nuts?

I'm doing some DIY wiring and most of my experience has been working on my own house. When collecting the bare grounds in an outlet/fixture box, I add a pigtail to attach to the grounding screw, twist them tightly with lineman's pliars, clip them cleanly at the end and twist on a wire nut nice and tight.

My current job needs to be permitted, and I hear from local pro electricians that the inspectors in the area are expecting to see these bare grounds twisted and crimped with sleeves.

Attached is a picture of my stripping/crimping pliers. Will these pliers do an adequate job of crimping? I've heard of crimping pliers that make an even crimp all around the sleeve, but understand these crimpers may cost $50.

I did not see any special crimping pliers at HD or Lowe's. do I need special crimping pliers or will my present pliers work satisfactorily?
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Last edited by jonfisher45 : October 1st, 2010 at 07:51 PM.
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  #2   IP: 64.83.203.186
Old October 2nd, 2010, 02:29 PM
junkcollector junkcollector is offline
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First find out if they actually require you to use crimps.

If they do, instead of using the copper crimps and a Buchanan 4 way crimper (which are fairly expensive if you don't have much crimping to do) You can use steel crimp sleeves and a lineman's pliers that has a crimp die behind the pivot point.

Those multipurpose strippers that you picture are really only good for is the red blue and yellow insulated "Stak-on" terminals. (and even that is questionable in my opinion)
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  #3   IP: 209.159.181.23
Old October 2nd, 2010, 09:14 PM
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joed joed is offline
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Crimps or wire nuts are both code compliant unless you have a local amendment requiring crimps.
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  #4   IP: 96.50.79.109
Old October 2nd, 2010, 10:45 PM
moto moto is offline
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Crimps are nice because they save space.
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  #5   IP: 74.232.15.177
Old October 3rd, 2010, 04:06 AM
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Default I'm checking

OK, I'm asking a wider group of people about this "crimping, but no wire nuts" business. I suppose the only way to nail this is to try and get an inspector on the phone and see if wire nuts are acceptable in this context. Obviously you cannot crimp all current-carrying wires on a regular basis because then you'd have to adopt a whole system of crimping with brand-name insulators to boot... and that would knock some DIY people out of the game. I'm not sure the code inspectors care, though.

It's easy to see that crimps are a step up above wire nuts, and I have no real algument about that. They are much less likely to loosen over time, but we're not talking about a fiercely vibrating motor, here... just a wall socket in a dining room.
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  #6   IP: 74.232.15.177
Old October 3rd, 2010, 04:17 AM
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Default Thinking it over

For shame... I'm replying to my own post!

God knows I've encountered my share of bare copper ground tangles stuffed into fixture and receptacle boxes without they're being connected to anything in particular.

And I don't think any inspector ever saw -- much less approved any of the miswired, dangerous combinations we've all seen in junction/switch boxes.

You can forcibly upgrade all kinds of equipment and practice requirements, but that's not going to stop sloppy workmanship by third rate electricians and lax DIYers.
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  #7   IP: 98.247.156.92
Old October 3rd, 2010, 10:48 AM
suemarkp suemarkp is offline
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I'd use wire nuts if you can. The crimps are one shot. If you need to add something later, it makes it more difficult (either you cut off the crimp connector, or tie into the tail if you can). If you want to remove a cable from a box, then you have to cut it out of the crimp and hope they didn't twist them all together first.
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  #8   IP: 74.232.15.177
Old October 3rd, 2010, 10:58 AM
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Default To: Junkcollector

Quote:
Originally Posted by junkcollector View Post
First find out if they actually require you to use crimps.

If they do, instead of using the copper crimps and a Buchanan 4 way crimper (which are fairly expensive if you don't have much crimping to do) You can use steel crimp sleeves and a lineman's pliers that has a crimp die behind the pivot point.
Junkcollector,

My lineman's pliers do have some sort of serrated gripping surface below the pivot point (see pictures). Will this enable me to use the steel crimp sleeves?
Looks like the sleeve would just be mashed flat. Is this satisfactory?
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Last edited by jonfisher45 : October 3rd, 2010 at 11:01 AM.
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  #9   IP: 64.83.203.186
Old October 3rd, 2010, 04:50 PM
junkcollector junkcollector is offline
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I was thinking of something more like this:

http://idealindustries.com/prodDetai...iers&l3=30-430

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  #10   IP: 74.232.15.177
Old October 3rd, 2010, 06:15 PM
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I understand the plier type.

What do you think of this as a strategy?

I'll ask for my rough inspection with all wires in the boxes trimmed to 6-8", neatly folded back into the box. I will leave one box (the first one he is likely to see) with all wires out, and ask at that point whether (s)he prefers wire nuts or crimp sleeves.

All the rest of my work looks very neat and organized (almost military).
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