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  #1   IP: 74.95.180.36
Old January 28th, 2009, 01:04 PM
daveyd daveyd is offline
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Default Insulating bedroom in basement

I plan on building a bedroom for my daughter in my basement. the basement is completely below grade. I do not have any water issues in the basement.

I plan on putting 3/4", 4x8' sheets of foam insulation (Dow) on the block walls. Then framing the walls for the room. My question is, should I put fiberglass insulation in between the wall studs or will that not be a good idea? If so, would it matter if I got faced or unfaced batts between the studs?
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  #2   IP: 148.78.63.154
Old January 28th, 2009, 02:02 PM
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Wgoodrich Wgoodrich is offline
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The outside wall being framed having the styrofoam behind it can be insulated with fiberglass between the studs but should be without paper being a vapor barrier. This would create a double vapor barrier causing trapped moisture.

Also be away if you install a bedroom in the basement that bedroom requires either an emergency egress / ingress window or door to the outside from the bedroom as a fire escape route. Also smoke detector and AFCI protection is required in bedrooms.

Good Luck

Wg
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  #3   IP: 71.207.61.150
Old January 28th, 2009, 02:39 PM
daveyd daveyd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wgoodrich View Post
The outside wall being framed having the styrofoam behind it can be insulated with fiberglass between the studs but should be without paper being a vapor barrier. This would create a double vapor barrier causing trapped moisture.

Also be away if you install a bedroom in the basement that bedroom requires either an emergency egress / ingress window or door to the outside from the bedroom as a fire escape route. Also smoke detector and AFCI protection is required in bedrooms.

Good Luck

Wg
Thanks for the info. I was confused on the faced/uncased insulation in the wall cavity with foam being on the block walls. Some of the websites I had visited said to install the faced fiberglass insulation with the paper side towards the room along with foam on the block walls. You are trying to prevent warm air from the room to come in contact with the cool block wall

The basement alread has a built in egress. The house was originally built (1966) with a garage and preformed concrete steps lead from the basement to the garage.

I'll definitely have a smoke detector! I'n not quite sure what AFCI protection is and how I would go about doing it in the bedroom
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  #4   IP: 76.104.157.174
Old January 28th, 2009, 04:52 PM
Fischer Fischer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daveyd View Post
I plan on building a bedroom for my daughter in my basement. the basement is completely below grade. I do not have any water issues in the basement.

I plan on putting 3/4", 4x8' sheets of foam insulation (Dow) on the block walls. Then framing the walls for the room. My question is, should I put fiberglass insulation in between the wall studs or will that not be a good idea? If so, would it matter if I got faced or unfaced batts between the studs?
I would not place the foam directly against the block walls. Mold will form between the foam and the blocks. Moisture passes through the block and condenses and doesn't have a chance to exhaust if it's trapped by the foam. Mold will form even in a dry basement. Best to frame out from the a couple of inches from the block wall and skip the foam and add a vapor barrier/fiberglass with paper on the inside of the bedroom, or you could actually place a 1/2" foam sheets on the inside bedroom walls and with tape use that as a vapor barrier. Sheetrock over using 2 1/2" screws. Works just fine.

I've seen many cases of jet black mold underneath foam boards in basements. The mold will find a way to outgas into the living areas, and that's not very healthy.

You have to have an egress window in the bedroom proper.

AFCI is an Arc Fault breaker. Goes into your main electrical panel in place of a regular breaker. Available most any big box store or electrical shop.
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Last edited by Fischer : September 15th, 2011 at 08:17 AM.
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  #5   IP: 71.174.49.230
Old January 28th, 2009, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wgoodrich View Post
The outside wall being framed having the styrofoam behind it can be insulated with fiberglass between the studs but should be without paper being a vapor barrier. This would create a double vapor barrier causing trapped moisture.
Good Luck
Wg
Question, I haven't had to insulate anywhere with insulation without the paper backing. What exactly keeps the insulation "standing up" in the wall cavity?
At some point I will insulate the basement
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  #6   IP: 71.207.61.150
Old January 29th, 2009, 01:57 PM
daveyd daveyd is offline
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I am putting Dow Super Tuff-R foam insulation on the block walls. http://building.dow.com/na/en/produc...supertuffr.htm

According to their website, you are supposed to use unfaced insulation betweeen the studs.

Interior Basement Wall (Foam and Stud Wall Framing) – Installing STYROFOAM™ Square Edge, Tongue & Groove, SCOREBOARD™, Super TUFF-R™, or TUFF-R
1. Install insulation over interior side of basement wall. Foam insulation may be held in place temporarily using spots of compatible adhesive.

2. Build conventional wood stud wall that firmly presses foam insulation against basement wall.

3. Install unfaced batts in stud cavities.

4. Install drywall over studs.

5. Tape and finish drywall according to manufacturer's directions


How does the unfaced insulation stay between the wall studs as nothing is being stapled to the studs?

Last edited by daveyd : January 29th, 2009 at 02:16 PM.
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  #7   IP: 76.104.157.174
Old January 29th, 2009, 03:11 PM
Fischer Fischer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daveyd View Post
I am putting Dow Super Tuff-R foam insulation on the block walls. http://building.dow.com/na/en/produc...supertuffr.htm

According to their website, you are supposed to use unfaced insulation betweeen the studs.

Interior Basement Wall (Foam and Stud Wall Framing) ? Installing STYROFOAM? Square Edge, Tongue & Groove, SCOREBOARD?, Super TUFF-R?, or TUFF-R
1. Install insulation over interior side of basement wall. Foam insulation may be held in place temporarily using spots of compatible adhesive.

2. Build conventional wood stud wall that firmly presses foam insulation against basement wall.

3. Install unfaced batts in stud cavities.

4. Install drywall over studs.

5. Tape and finish drywall according to manufacturer's directions


How does the unfaced insulation stay between the wall studs as nothing is being stapled to the studs?

Friction fit.

I wouldn't put foam directly against a block wall no matter what they say. I've seen it done. I've torn it out. I've had to bleach the walls to get rid of the mold.

Good luck (sincerely).
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Last edited by Fischer : September 15th, 2011 at 08:17 AM.
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  #8   IP: 148.78.63.154
Old January 29th, 2009, 03:35 PM
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Staple nylon straps to back of studs every 12 " horisontally. Then push the unfaced insulation into the stud space. Friction holds the insulation in place, drywall holds in it place facing into the room.

I agree I have found mold behind any type foam placed against a concrete wall when the foam is removed. 3 1/2" unfaced fiberglass is rated R 13. It is the normal insulation you put in the stud walls above ground exposed to sub zero weather. In the basement the earth is normally 50 degrees not sub zero. Why would you want to double insulate a basement non bearing wall and foam the concrete walls when you have less heat loss exposure below earth ?

Key point is to allow the moisture wicking through the masonry wall to dissapate through the walls unnoticed. This is done by having your tar vapor barrier on outside of basement walls and nonfaced fiberglass insulation and drywall to allow the moisture to pass through the wall normally with the 2" air gap between the masonry and the stud wall.

Wg
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  #9   IP: 76.104.157.174
Old January 29th, 2009, 03:46 PM
Fischer Fischer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wgoodrich View Post
Staple nylon straps to back of studs every 12 " horisontally. Then push the unfaced insulation into the stud space. Friction holds the insulation in place, drywall holds in it place facing into the room.

I agree I have found mold behind any type foam placed against a concrete wall when the foam is removed. 3 1/2" unfaced fiberglass is rated R 13. It is the normal insulation you put in the stud walls above ground exposed to sub zero weather. In the basement the earth is normally 50 degrees not sub zero. Why would you want to double insulate a basement non bearing wall and foam the concrete walls when you have less heat loss exposure below earth ?

Key point is to allow the moisture wicking through the masonry wall to dissapate through the walls unnoticed. This is done by having your tar vapor barrier on outside of basement walls and nonfaced fiberglass insulation and drywall to allow the moisture to pass through the wall normally with the 2" air gap between the masonry and the stud wall.

Wg
WG and I have had the same experience with foam placed directly on the interior face of a masonary wall. IMO foam should on be placed on the face exterior side of a masonary wall.

This is my opinion only. The only time that I render an opinion is if I've had experience with that particular problem, and can speak from experience. Absolutely no BS on my posts.

If I have a suggestion that's an entirely different situation and is noted as such.
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Last edited by Fischer : September 15th, 2011 at 08:17 AM.
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  #10   IP: 71.255.243.179
Old January 30th, 2009, 06:04 AM
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Great suggestion WG! I WISH that was done in my house with Mansard roof. With nothing on the roof side of my walls, almost every insulation bat has billowed out allowing air to go right around it.

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Staple nylon straps to back of studs every 12 " horisontally. Wg
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