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  #1   IP: 96.233.52.230
Old March 22nd, 2008, 06:45 AM
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Default Waste line sizing? Washer, dishwasher, sink

I've had a problem since buying this house that now needs to be fixed. The washing machine is in the basement, raised up about 12" off the floor. The washer has a vent cap that rises from the drain pipe with an AAV?

The house has 2 vents stacks, one near the main waste line - 4' PVC stack thru the roof. On the other side of the house - 36' away is a 2nd vent line thru the roof, starts as 3" then changes to 4" somewhere in the wall. This vent in the basement is cast iron & changes to PVC before going thru the roof. A garage is being added & at that time the wall will be ripped out & cast iron replaced with all PVC
Main sewer line w/connection in the basement is still cast

2" Drain drops ~5" over 35', so 1/4" per foot is not met
Once the kitchen is renovated I will gain 4" as the drain pipe will move up to the joists & I will have a 9" drop over 35'

Kitchen will then have: Sink & dishwasher
Then below in the basement will be the laundry room

Currently there is a 2" drain pipe running the 35' across the house. The kitchen sink drain pipe is 1.5"
When the washer is running, detergent bubbles come up thru the kitchen sink. Some water also comes out of the where the washer drain goes in to the drain. The kitchen sink does not have a vent pipe - there are double windows over the sink. The kitchen sink drain goes 41" to the basement, one way is then the drain, the other goes to the vent stack

With replacement of the kitchen counter top (Old rusty metal edged) with a "new to me" counter top one of the dual sink drains is leaking when the washer runs. Just needs a new gasket - I'm hoping

But, now I want to look into what size drain pipe should be installed to properly drain the laundry & kitchen

Does the 2" pipe need to be upgraded to a 3" pipe by code?
If not, will upgrading the pipe resolve the issue for now?
It will be another year before the kitchen is renovated & plumbing re-worked
Does the kitchen sink need a better venting method to meet code? This can be reworked when the kitchen is renovated

Pic of the washer trap & drain setup
Pip on the right then goes thru a 90 & then up to kitchen sink - rise of approx 41". In the basement the 2" pipe then goes on another 3' & then up as the vent stack

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  #2   IP: 96.233.52.230
Old March 22nd, 2008, 09:37 AM
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Better lay out of drain pipes in the area. The "bend" in 2" the pipe is actually the 90 degree bend in the basement as it goes from the West wall to the South wall
With the kitchen renovation the sink will move to the South wall. A dishwasher will be added on the South wall

In the basement where the 2" drain runs over to the vent & converts to 3" a door will be installed to the basement
I'm debating cutting the old cast iron vent out completely & putting a new vent stack in near the corner of the West & South wall. This wall will go up to the new garage/great room & walk up attic & will be the tallest roof on this side of the house
Problem is this will end up on the front roof of the addition
I'd need to run it 5-6' towards the back of the house to have the vent on the back roof

Alternative is to run the new vent over to the old stack between the floor joists in the basement. This would mean cutting out all of the old Cast iron & putting in PVC
And this old stack exits the roof approx 2' from the new addition, which will be higher

This still would not solve the kitchen sink vent issue

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Old March 22nd, 2008, 11:20 AM
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2nd load of laundry, 2nd sink drain is not leaking with installation of a new washer
After the laundry was done I also raised the drain pipe up 2" in the corner. This will provide MUCH better drainage for the washing machine. The line in that area was almost level. But since it was pushing water 35" up to the kitchen sink I don't think it will eliminate the problem entirely. I also redid the laundry discharge pipe, it now has a "u" at the top & points down the drain better. I was going to add another 3" of PVC pipe to the top of the drain pipe, but my glue was almost empty & dried out
I should also take the trap apart & check that

I guess I have to wait a week for the next laundry load to see what happens
Once the kitchen & plumbing is completed I'll gain another 3" of height in the corner. I can't go any higher now since the kitchen drain connects to cast iron in the basement. No way to raise that puppy up any
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Old March 22nd, 2008, 02:12 PM
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If your having "vent" issues you could always add a studor (AAV) vent to the kitchen sink. Most places nowadays don't allow those little (and nice and cheap) black vents, they want the $20 a pop studors (also available at the big boys stores) the studors have a much better spring mechanisim that stops all backflow should the case arise.

I can tell ya now, your washing machine is working hard to empty out the water having to lift it up that high.

Would it not be easier to have the cast iron cut into and replaced with PVC lower in the basement area, then you could plumb the laundry at a much easier height directly to it.
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Old March 22nd, 2008, 02:34 PM
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Actually the cast iron leaves the house about 4.5' up in the basement wall. The connections are located at just over 5' on the opposite side of the basement. So the water travels all the way across the basement before it enters the cast iron. The washer is raised over 12" off the ground on a pedestal. From the top of the pedestal (bottom of washer) to the top of the "U" for the washer drain pipe is 6'
I know they "normally" want approx a 36" tall drain pipe
So yeah, it's pumping an extra 3'. The wife wants a front load washer, if (when) that happens I'll build/pour a 2' tall base to set it on.
The other side of the house where the cast iron main stack is located may be turned into a basement bathroom. So no plan on moving the washer & dryer over there
Possible once the garage is built I can empty out my small tool room & make that the laundry room. Then it will only be about 12' to the stack. But I will still have a height problem due to the height of stack exit from the house

Plus the pipes cross the area for access to basement door
So I can't lower them, unless the bathroom is built. Then on one wall I can build a much better slope

Washer right now is pushing water up approx 36" into the vent stack & kitchen sink drain. As long as the drain is sealed properly we are OK - been here 4+ years now

I guess I can hang in there another year until garage is built & kitchen renovation starts

Is the 2" drain properly sized for a washing machine, kitchen sink & a dishwasher (to be installed). I know a 3" pipe would allow much better drainage, and it would be a pretty straight shot
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  #6   IP: 99.249.137.176
Old March 22nd, 2008, 07:41 PM
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Looks to me like you have no air gap between the washer discharge hose and drainage pipe. This would be the case if water is being pushed up into the kitchen sink.

You must have an air gap where the washer connects to the pipe. Right now, you can get sewage from the kitchen sink into the washer.

You are pushing the capacity of your washer's pump too.

I would consider installing a laundry tub next to the washer and then use a small laundry pump to pump up to the drain. Have the washer empty into the laundry tub.
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Old March 23rd, 2008, 07:04 AM
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Or get hold of one of those basement washer pump systems.
http://www.saniflo.com/index.asp
You will still need the washer to empty into a laundry tub first.

As your thinking of putting in a bathroom as well this might be a great solution. washer to laundry tub, across the floor to your new bathroom pumped up to waste discharge line...."problem solved".
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Last edited by pushkins : August 11th, 2011 at 02:15 AM.
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  #8   IP: 96.233.52.230
Old March 23rd, 2008, 07:30 AM
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Yes, a toilet would have to be a macerator type installation
I think for now I'm going to open up the clean out ports & take a look. Due to the low slope I'm thinking maybe some build-up is also attributing to the problem
An 8' section of pipe was replaced near the basement stairs by a plumber. For some reason someone thought running the 2" pipe right where you need to walk down the stairs was a good idea. Plumber just moved the 45 degree pipe, so same pipe/angles, it just went straight longer to get past the stairs 1st.
All the heating pipes were hanging down 12" from the basement ceiling, couldn't even walk around down there.
Every time I turned around we had something else for him to do:
Galvy pipe in 1st floor bath & not vented correctly
Vent stack not connected inside the wall. Ripped out cast iron & replaced w/PVC from basement to (new) roof
Main shut off valve did not work
Installed whole house filter
Upgraded outdoor faucets to freeze proof - extended shutoff pipe that extends into basement
Ran CPVC connection for my RO/DI for Reef Aquarium
3/4" feed to house was immediately downsized to 1/2". Replaced with 3/4" all the way to 2nd floor feed

Very busy 1st year here between plumbing & electrical upgrades.

I should have built the garage 1st
Last major construction starts in 2 months
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Old March 27th, 2008, 04:32 PM
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Upgraded the 2" pipe to a 3" pipe
Problem gone, no way for the washer to fill that 3" pipe
Thanks
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