Grounding/Bonding GEC's

sidecutter · #1 IP: 76.203.151.222 November 5th, 2009, 08:33 AM

Is it O.k to run seperate GEC,S one (1) from the panel to a Rod (next to the panel) and the other from the panel through the attic to the front of the house (where the water main is located)? Also is bonding around water meters and water heaters a normal practice. If the inspector doesn't want it, then of course it's no big deal just to remove the bond (while he's there). Thanx in advance as always Side

**Ohm1** · #2 IP: 209.91.54.95 November 6th, 2009, 08:30 AM

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Is it O.k to run seperate GEC,S one (1) from the panel to a Rod (next to the panel) and the other from the panel through the attic to the front of the house (where the water main is located)?

The conductor going to the rods is not a GEC, it's a EGC (Equipment grounding conductor). Yes, if you choose to use a metal underground water pipe, then you should have a #4 GEC (Sized per T. 250.66) ran from the panel to a metal underground water pipe that's in direct contact with earth for 10 feet or more. Make your connection to the interior portion within 5ft from where it enters the building. Then you should run a #6 EGC from the panel to two rods not less than 8ft in length. The rods should be 6feet or more apart [Note: Some jurisdictions may require the rods to be more than 6 feet apart--check with the AHJ).

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Also is bonding around water meters and water heaters a normal practice.

The water meter I would say yes if you have metal pipe of 10 feet or more on the utility side, and then on the other side you have metal water pipe that goes directly into the house. As far as bonding the hot water, I would say no--if you can prove that a mixer has done this for you. I bond from the cold to hot--just to get past all the bull. We are also required to hit our interior metal waste water, and gas pipe.

Big debates on Hot to cold bonding, or bonding any metal piping and air ducts within the building. Debates on bonding, and grounding period.

**suemarkp** · #3 IP: 130.76.32.19 November 6th, 2009, 02:57 PM

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Originally Posted by Ohm1

The conductor going to the rods is not a GEC, it's a EGC (Equipment grounding conductor).

I disagree with that statement. The wire from the main disconnect t othe ground electrode system is a GEC. If you have two separate ground electrode systems (a pipe in the earth and two ground rods), I would say you have two GEC's.

Whether the water pipe is a ground electrode depends on whether that pipe is burined in the earth for 10' or more outside. You have to run a #4 to it in any case, but if it is a ground electrode then the GEC has to clamp on within 5' of where the pipe enters the structure. If it isn't an electrode, that wire can be attached anywhere on the pipe.

**Ohm1** · #4 IP: 209.91.54.95 November 6th, 2009, 05:13 PM

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I disagree with that statement.

Want be the first time

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The wire from the main disconnect t othe ground electrode system is a GEC.

True!

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If you have two separate ground electrode systems (a pipe in the earth and two ground rods), I would say you have two GEC's.

You will need to do better than that????????

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Whether the water pipe is a ground electrode depends on whether that pipe is burined in the earth for 10' or more outside. You have to run a #4 to it in any case, but if it is a ground electrode then the GEC has to clamp on within 5' of where the pipe enters the structure. If it isn't an electrode, that wire can be attached anywhere on the pipe.

This is clear cut! Seeing that we are talking grounding, and not bonding!

sidecutter · #5 IP: 76.254.142.27 November 8th, 2009, 02:07 PM

Don't understand the meaning of "If it isn't an electrode it can be attached anywhere on that pipe". Please explain (thanx) Sidecutter

**suemarkp** · #6 IP: 98.247.156.18 November 8th, 2009, 05:04 PM

You are required to bond the water piping. There is no restriction of where along that water pipe you bond it -- can be anywhere along the contiguous metal water pipe system. However, if the pipe is a ground electrode (which is defined as being in the earth for 10' or more with that buried pipe being metal, then you must treat the pipe as a ground electrode and that requires the ground electrode to be within 5' of where that pipe enters the house.

You use the same size wire from the same location whether bonding or grounding. But grounding is more stringent as to where that wire connects to the pipe.

sidecutter · #7 IP: 76.248.239.194 November 12th, 2009, 09:23 PM

Thank you for your responses and the Birthday greeting on 11/7/09