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Thread: Garage feeder question.

  1. #11

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    Photos are not great but I hope they help.
    I managed to get a home run from the main panel to the garage panel.
    The Main panel is not finished yet, still short of some breakers but I hope the picture shows what is going on.

    Thank you

  2. #12
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    What is the skinny bare wire coming out of the meter main panel? Looks too small to be a ground electrode conductor.
    Mark
    Kent, WA

  3. #13

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    I am almost certain that that is #6 or they, the meter was set by licensed electricians and inspected, used the old existing ground wire.

    Not sure if that matters but as of now it is considered temporary power so I better make sure that the wire is the right size.

    Thanks for bringing that up.

    The original single ground rod is not something I have seen before, need to dig out a picture.

    Does it otherwise look good as far as you can tell from the pics?


    Thank you
    Last edited by acer66; April 20th, 2017 at 07:54 PM.

  4. #14
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    What size wires are leaving the meter main and going to the other panel? What is the main breaker rating in that remote panel? What what is that feeder in the lower right going to and what will it connect to in that panel?

    Otherwise, looks good. Panels are so cluttered anymore with all the AFCI breakers installed. What is that one curly white wire at the lower left -- just a cutoff that is hanging there?

    The bare wire in the main looks to be like a #10 or #8 assuming there is #12 on the 20A breakers. Did you have a 100A service that was upgraded or maybe the temporary service conductors are only 100A? #8 would have been legal for that, but #8 must be run in conduit (except for a temporary service). If that is going to be a 200A service, #6 is the minimum required only because you have a rod. If you had a better electrode, then #4 copper would be required. And make sure you have 2 rods at least 6' apart if what you have is a rod (or unless you can prove that one rod is 25 ohms or less).
    Last edited by suemarkp; April 20th, 2017 at 11:51 PM.
    Mark
    Kent, WA

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by suemarkp View Post
    What size wires are leaving the meter main and going to the other panel? What is the main breaker rating in that remote panel? What what is that feeder in the lower right going to and what will it connect to in that panel?
    The meter is 200A and feeds the 200A main panel which is in the picture via AL SER #4/0-4/0-4/0-2/0 which is the wire coming in from the lower left.
    The wire leaving on the lower right via the 2" PVC pipe is a AL MHF 2-2-2-4 feeding the panel im the detached garage.
    Right now there is a 90A breaker in the main panel and a 60A in the garage which I used because I already had it.
    That is also a question if that is up to code or should the smaller breaker be in the main panel?
    Otherwise, looks good. Panels are so cluttered anymore with all the AFCI breakers installed. What is that one curly white wire at the lower left -- just a cutoff that is hanging there?
    Thank you and yes, I am wondering if they come up with something which eliminates that pigtail and that white curly wire was part of a breaker laying there.
    I should have cleaned it up better before taking the pic.
    The bare wire in the main looks to be like a #10 or #8 assuming there is #12 on the 20A breakers. Did you have a 100A service that was upgraded or maybe the temporary service conductors are only 100A? #8 would have been legal for that, but #8 must be run in conduit (except for a temporary service). If that is going to be a 200A service, #6 is the minimum required only because you have a rod. If you had a better electrode, then #4 copper would be required. And make sure you have 2 rods at least 6' apart if what you have is a rod (or unless you can prove that one rod is 25 ohms or less).
    There was a 100A panel there but I doubt that was all legal or up to code, it was a big mess and almost everything was removed.
    Yes, those are 12g wires and I will double check on the size of the ground wire and yes it a 200A service drop.
    I will have 2 new ground rods because the inspector said that I can not use the old ground rod pictured below.

  6. #16

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    This the garage panel which is a 100A and for some reason is sideways.
    The grounding wire is still missing and it will also have 2 ground rods.

  7. #17

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    One question about the ground wire, do I read nec 250.66(a) wrong assuming that awg 6 is sufficient?

    Thank you

  8. #18
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    If your only ground electrodes are rods, then #6 copper is all the larger you need to go. If you had any better electrodes (water pipe, concrete foundation wire), the size for a 200A service ground would be #4 copper. I like to use number 4 and just run it to rod 1 and continue unspliced on to rod 2. But that is not required.

    Panels aren't allowed to be sideways unless they have to be (for clearance or other reasons, 240.33). If they are sideways, the handle must be up when the breaker is on (240.81) if it works up-down. Half of yours will work that way and half will not.

    The 90A on the garage feeder is fine, but with a 60A at the far end all you're going to get is 60 amps. For most people, that is plenty. Make sure to put a "MAIN" or "Service Disconnect" label on that 60A breaker in the garage. Most panels come with stickers for that.
    Mark
    Kent, WA

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by suemarkp View Post
    If your only ground electrodes are rods, then #6 copper is all the larger you need to go. If you had any better electrodes (water pipe, concrete foundation wire), the size for a 200A service ground would be #4 copper. I like to use number 4 and just run it to rod 1 and continue unspliced on to rod 2. But that is not required.
    Cool, water is pvc pipe from a well but I do have a NG line coming in, does that mean I need to run #4 also to the gas pipe?

    Panels aren't allowed to be sideways unless they have to be (for clearance or other reasons, 240.33). If they are sideways, the handle must be up when the breaker is on (240.81) if it works up-down. Half of yours will work that way and half will not.
    Sorry, the pic for some reason went 90 deg to the left when I uploaded it but the panel is mounted in the normal upright position.

    The 90A on the garage feeder is fine, but with a 60A at the far end all you're going to get is 60 amps. For most people, that is plenty. Make sure to put a "MAIN" or "Service Disconnect" label on that 60A breaker in the garage. Most panels come with stickers for that.
    Good to know and yeah the 60A will be more then a enough for me for quite some time.

    Thank you

  10. #20
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    NG lines are not part of the ground electrode system, so do not connect to it. Metal water pipes must be bonded with #4 regardless of whether the pipe in the earth is metal or plastic. The only difference here is where that connection can be made. If you're just bonding it, it can be made anywhere on the piping system. If the pipe in the dirt was metal, then that #4 would have to be within 5' of where the pipe enters the house. If interior water pipes are plastic, then no bonding there either. Jumper from hot to cold pipes would also be #4 if interior piping is metal.
    Mark
    Kent, WA

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