Moving Question

[Mr T]

I am helping a friend clean out a house that he moved out of. He took a short notice job across the country and couldnt finish the move out. I am just about done. The buyer wants "everything" out of the house (referring to all the stuff/junk left behind.) The only things in the buyers contract are 2 ladders, a dehumidifier in the basement and the dishwasher. In the basement there is a gas ventless heater on the wall. It hangs from a wall bracket with 4 screws. No vent, no electricity, just hooks up to the gas line. Removing the heater leaves no signs of it being there other then a gas line. (the buyer has seen it but not mentioned anything about it) It is not a finished basement, and the heater was used for supplimental heat when he was doin stuff down there.

Would this typically be classified as part of the house that needs to stay, or something that could be removed before closing? I have not been able to reach him about this yet, or his realitor. Someone who has been helping haul the stuff out (all is free to anyone who helped) wants the heater.

[Bumblerazz]

I would think that it would be considered as part of the structure, much in the same way a ceiling light fixture would be. You can easily unscrew it and disconnect the power, but it's still considered part of the building.

A general rule of thumb is that if you have to use a tool to remove it, it's part of the structure. There are plenty of exceptions to the rule of course and this may be one.

I suppose you could always ask the new owner if they care if it goes. I doubt it'll mean anything to 'em.

[Bumblerazz]

sorry, didn't read your last sentence.

Well you could remove it, hold on to it for a couple of weeks, and if the new owner calls foul, return it.

[Mr T]

I did check with a friend that is into real estate. He says its borderline. Also mentioned that since its a flexible gas line instead of a hard plumbed, its more likely that we can take it, since in that case it is more like an appliance (which were removed per contract).

It has been removed already but we are holding onto it till the house is closed and it blows over.

How long does a buyer have after closing to call us on a missing (space) heater?

[mdshunk]

Rule of thumb... if it takes tools to remove, it's part of the building. I've heard of buyers making claims that the drapery rods and associated hardware were removed, and being successful at being compensated.

[Under_Miner]

Rule of thumb... if it takes tools to remove, it's part of the building. I've heard of buyers making claims that the drapery rods and associated hardware were removed, and being successful at being compensated.

I say get a new rule.

How about Natural gas barbeques???

Or Satelites??? or Wall mounted Plasma TV's????:wink:

[mdshunk]

I say get a new rule.

How about Natural gas barbeques???

Or Satelites??? or Wall mounted Plasma TV's????:wink:

What about them? I'm just relating what I've observed to be a rule of thumb, and not necessarily any rule of law.

[Piper]

If you sell a house you should write in the puchase agreement any attached items that are not included. CYA

[Mr T]

Well, its not my house, I didnt do the sellers contract. Just got suckered into gutting the place. We didnt feel like selling everything, so we just gave it all away. Someone talked us into the heater.. Luckily we got it back..

They are closign on it tomorrow.

[AllanJ]

I remember reading about one instance where the seller referred to a room as "a home theater" and the buyer got upset because all of the video gear seen during the initial home viewing had been removed. A settlement, the details I forget, was reached. The argument would probably not have started if the room was called "a rec. room". Although a plasma TV is normally attached to a wall, hardly any buyer or buyer's broker would argue about its removal from "a living room" prior to closing because custom and usage has it that "televisions" do not normally go/come with a house.

[JeffeVerde]

It has been removed already but we are holding onto it till the house is closed and it blows over.

You could be proactive and tell the seller's realtor that you "removed that old unvented, unpermitted heater down in the basement - it was a real safety hazard. I was always afraid ol' what's-his-name was going to asphyxiate himself when he worked down in the basement. I'm surprised the buyer's home inspector didn't flag it."

[Wgoodrich]

The experience I have had is if it is mounted to the structure it stays.

Example water softner sets on the floor but only connecting with quick connects same as a washer or dryer that sets on the floor same as a free standing on the floor air compressor that is hardwired allowed to go.

A microwave hood comb is plugged in but screwed to the cabinnet it would stay same as a heater screwed to the wall or heater.

If mounted to the structure disregarding quick connect plumbing or wiring then it stays as part of the structure. If setting on the floor or shelf but only connected to the home by quick connects it may go.

Plasma TV makes for an interesting subject.

Wg

[Mr T]

This is a old thread. The house sold several months ago..

Thanks

[Under_Miner]

The experience I have had is if it is mounted to the structure it stays.

Example water softner sets on the floor but only connecting with quick connects same as a washer or dryer that sets on the floor same as a free standing on the floor air compressor that is hardwired allowed to go.

A microwave hood comb is plugged in but screwed to the cabinnet it would stay same as a heater screwed to the wall or heater.

If mounted to the structure disregarding quick connect plumbing or wiring then it stays as part of the structure. If setting on the floor or shelf but only connected to the home by quick connects it may go.

Plasma TV makes for an interesting subject.

Wg
That may fly with some people, but we must realize it really boils down to what's in the purchase agreement. Unless it's specifically stated in the agreemant as a part of the sale, the owner can take it. When I baught my house, the seller said the microwave/ranghood goes and the water filtration system goes, I ageed. Only because the rangehood was beige.

[suemarkp]

It is not that simple because you can't list everything (even if you try and have pages of stuff, you'll miss something unique). There is a certain expectation as to what is included, and the P&S agreement may list "items fastened to the structure". The problem is, that wording is vague.

I expect interior and exterior doors to stay as they are fastened and part of the house. I expect cabinet doors and drawers to stay, although you could argue the drawers are not fastened. I expect plumbing fixtures to stay. I expect water heaters to stay unless they have quick connects and a power receptacle. I don't expect washers, dryers, refrigerators, etc unless specifically stated.

I know someone who was mad that all the door knockers were taken. To me, those are fastened, but they weren't specifically mentioned.

[Under_Miner]

It is not that simple because you can't list everything (even if you try and have pages of stuff, you'll miss something unique). There is a certain expectation as to what is included, and the P&S agreement may list "items fasted to the structure". The problem is, that wording is vague.

I expect interior and exterior doors to stay as they are fastened and part of the house. I expect cabinet doors and drawers to stay, although you could argue the drawers are not fastened. I expect plumbing fixtures to stay. I expect water heaters to stay unless they have quick connects and a power receptacle. I don't expect washers, dryers, refrigerators, etc unless specifically stated.

I know someone who was mad that all the door knockers were taken. To me, those are fastened, but they weren't specifically mentioned.

Yeah, I see what you mean. You could go on and on with a list of what you could take. My sister-in-law moved int a house only to find the built-in dishwasher was removed afetr she took posession, she was ticked. My first house had no light bulbs or toilet paper, like really, how cheap can you be. I guess people have to just use their common sense when buying/selling.

[scuba_dave]

I've heard of light fixtures & everything else being stripped out of a house

I have to admit, as a poor college kid I used to keep the old dead light bulbs
If I moved to a different Apt I would put the dead bulbs in & take my good ones. Eating mac & cheese all the time must effect you

And I've yet to meet a woman who would use a roll of toilet paper that was used in a house/apt by a prior owner. But they use public bathrooms :)

[Under_Miner]

I've heard of light fixtures & everything else being stripped out of a house

I have to admit, as a poor college kid I used to keep the old dead light bulbs
If I moved to a different Apt I would put the dead bulbs in & take my good ones. Eating mac & cheese all the time must effect you

And I've yet to meet a woman who would use a roll of toilet paper that was used in a house/apt by a prior owner. But they use public bathrooms :)

Not my wife.