pool system testing

[Mr T]

Well it has finally come time to check out my pool.

For those of you not keeping track at home, Ive been restoring a repo house for hte past 7.5 years (taking the long approach). It has a inground pool that was later enclosed (which became a nightmare within a few years of it being done). The pool room has been repaired to the point that its protected from the enviroment again and projects within the house have come along to the point that I can think about the pool now.

The pool is a inground, 3-10' deep, probably gunnite?? Pool is 45-50 years old, and has been enclosed for most of it's life and well taken care of. However it has been sitting empty for over about 10 years now. I know this type of pool isnt designed to be empty. Taking a look at things, the walls all feel sound, no signs of cracking or bowing. No ice damage. The filter/pump model is still being sold (Hayward). The heater is from the mid 80's and probably will need replaced. I dont plan on heating it yet.

The pool needs sealed and painted. Before i shell out money for the paint, I want to see if everything works. Is there a procedure to test a unknown filter system without filling the pool up all the way? The filter is level with the pool apron. There appears to be 2 inlets to the filter, one at the bottom of the pool (10' beloww the filter) and one that is level with the water surface. The water outlet in the pool is in the shallow end, about 3' deep. Will I be able to put a few feet of water into the pool and get a good idea of if the filter/pump works, or should i just stick a hose in the 'surface' inlet? I do need to flush out 10 years of bugs out of the pipes and check for leaks too.

Also, Thank you in advance for not mentioning the words "desert air" anywhere in your replies. In return I will read your responses :D :D :D :D :D

[suemarkp]

What kind of filter is it -- cartridge, sand, or diatomaceous earth? You won't be able to keep up with a hose. All I can think of to do would be to get a big barrel or garbage can, fill it with water, and jam a fitting into the pool return to keep the barrel full. You'll need to disconnect the pump inlet and put a flex hose on that so it sucks out of the pump, or use the vacuum hose and stick that in the barrel. You'll need to turn off or cover the floor drain when doing this, or you'll be sucking air from there (put a piece of rubber over it and set the barrel on top of it).

Things to determine:
Does the pump still work and prime itself?
Is the pump properly sized (water speed limit on suction side is 50 GPM for 1.5" pipe and 80 GPM for a 2" pipe) -vs- pool turn over rate?
What is the pressure drop across the filter, and is it reasonable (not too low or too high)?
Is the filter sized for the GPM you're pumping?
Does the filter need to be backwashed?
Do you have a chlorine feeder or salt/chlorine generator? Does it work?
You may want to consider buying a flow meter to pipe into your plumbing so you can see what you're really flowing.
If you have a sand filter, I'd dump out the sand and refill with new zeobrite or sand media.

[Mr T]

What kind of filter is it -- cartridge, sand, or diatomaceous earth?
Its either sand or D.E. I plan on inspecting and servicing it as needed before firing it up. (got ALOT of electrical updating to do too)

You won't be able to keep up with a hose. All I can think of to do would be to get a big barrel or garbage can, fill it with water, and jam a fitting into the pool return to keep the barrel full. You'll need to disconnect the pump inlet and put a flex hose on that so it sucks out of the pump, or use the vacuum hose and stick that in the barrel. You'll need to turn off or cover the floor drain when doing this, or you'll be sucking air from there (put a piece of rubber over it and set the barrel on top of it).
If i was to put a foot or 2 of water into the pool, would the pump be able to pull water from that low without much strain? Or are they designed for a completely filled pool only? The pool is about 10' deep.


Things to determine:
Does the pump still work and prime itself?
This is what Im trying to determine. If I can get the pool functional with minimal cost I am going to do it now. If i need to replace a filter or other expensive stuff, I am going to wait.

Is the pump properly sized (water speed limit on suction side is 50 GPM for 1.5" pipe and 80 GPM for a 2" pipe) -vs- pool turn over rate?
What is the pressure drop across the filter, and is it reasonable (not too low or too high)?
Is the filter sized for the GPM you're pumping?

all unknowns at this point. The last owners to use the pool are dead. However our neighbors owned a pool shop in town at the time and managed/ran/maintained this pool. I have not been able to get ahold of them latley. (trying)

[/quote]Does the filter need to be backwashed?[/quote]
I believe so, gotta dig the manual i downloaded back out. Just checking for operation right now though.

Do you have a chlorine feeder or salt/chlorine generator? Does it work? Nope, unknown how it was fed previously. I did find a old bucket of cholorine in a closet so I now what they used. (gotta find a fun way to 'dispose' of it :D )

As i said, just wanting to test now to see if and how everything works, and what i am gonna need to get it running. I gotta repair a PVC pipe in the garage.. someone moved the filter with their car at one time. (I am going to do something to prevent that from happening again). Just looking for the easiest way to circulate water right now. Still a long ways off from filling and using it.

Thanks

[Bumblerazz]

I have found that it is very difficult to test piping without a full pool. It can be done as mark has mentioned but often results can be misleading.

By your description I assume the pool is 16' X 32' or so? If so, the pump is likely to be 1horse and if the interior of the pump is clean it will work sufficiently for your needs. Our local pool pro says you need 1.5horse but what has happened is they've reduced the impeller size in new pumps, thus requiring the increase in power. Also new pumps do not hold their prime as easily, so in my opinion, resurect the Hayward if you can.

To test it, treat it like an outboard motor, set it up on a bench top with the intake and return in a bucket (tie down the return or prepare to get wet!! :) ) It is easier to test for sufficient pressure when hooked back up to the system.

If i was to put a foot or 2 of water into the pool, would the pump be able to pull water from that low without much strain? Or are they designed for a completely filled pool only? The pool is about 10' deep.

Yes, the pump can do it, but with difficulty, it will likely lose its prime. But there is a second problem. You have to cut off the skimmer. If your pool is like mine, the bottom drain is hooked into the skimmer, and from there to the pump. Check the bottom of the skimmer and you should see two openings. As mark said, it would be easier to run a filter test through the skimmer using a barrel and a series of hoses.

Again I would test the filter seperately. Attach the pump to the filter as for normal operation, then the intake for the pump and the two returns from the filter (one for the filter setting and the other for the backwash setting) in a barrel.

If i need to replace a filter or other expensive stuff, I am going to wait.

In my area, there are enough people filling in there ingrounds that you can pick up a second hand one for cheap (<$75). But other than replacing the sand you shouldn't have to worry about the filter. Pretty low tech and very solid. I pulled mine apart to find an air leak once, very simple. Hayward is good quality and if the pool was cared for properly before it's long shutdown even the sand shouldn't need replacing.

Does the filter need to be backwashed?

The filter should be backwashed after a long storage, if for no other reason than to loosen up the sand. It will have packed and settled over time and to get good filtering results and even accurate pressure readings you will need to loosen it up.

As for checking the pipes, you could use compressed air. I haven't done this but a friend of mine swears by it. Hook up a compressor at one end and close off all other outlets (remove the filter and pump from the equation). Run the compressor up to 30psi and shut it off (most pool systems run on less than this, check the manual). If the pressure drops you have a leak. I'm not sure if you can get fittings to close off all the outlets, but it's easier to clean up than filling and dumping hundreds of gallons of water.

[Mr T]

I will try to post some pics of the pool and it's componets later tonight. I dont have a skimmer as you seem them today.

[Mr T]

Ok here are some poolpics. This is a repo house that we are restoring. The pool is indoors and this room is pretty much a storage/remodel prep room so its a big mess.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/Nielmot/Pool/01-pool.jpg
The Pool. We plan on removing the diving board.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/Nielmot/Pool/02-step-plate.jpg
The nameplate.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/Nielmot/Pool/03-wateroutlet.jpg
The water fill outlet in the shallow end.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/Nielmot/Pool/04-drain.jpg
The drain.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/Nielmot/Pool/05-inlet.jpg
Water inlet. I have not seen on like this before. (see next pic)

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/Nielmot/Pool/06-inletupclose.jpg
Was something else attached?

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/Nielmot/Pool/07-fill.jpg
Water fill valve (under the diving board)

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/Nielmot/Pool/08-light.jpg
The light.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/Nielmot/Pool/09-light-junction-box.jpg
After some digging, I found the junciton box.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/Nielmot/Pool/10-access-pit.jpg
There are 2 of these planter pits above the water outlet and the 'skimmer' inlet. I might make flush a cover for these.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/Nielmot/Pool/11-filter.jpg
The filter.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/Nielmot/Pool/12-pump.jpg
The pump. (made in my hometown!)

[Bumblerazz]

Very nice! Once restored it'll probably be your favourite place to while away your extra time.

The pump and filter look, on the surface, to be in excellent shape. The pool as well. A little army of summer students with brushes ought to clean that up in no time!! ;)

I have to admit that I've never seen a return pipe like that! Why would anybody stick something like that way out into your swiming area? I agree that it looks like something was attached, something plastic given the colour of the glue residue, but what...? Maybe it's not a return but feed for a fancy fountain!! :) (Is it my imagination or does that top piece on the open end unscrew for a compression fitting of some sort?)

I gather Paddock Pools are custom installs so you may be in for some in-depth research.

[Mr T]

That filter model is still being sold. Only problem is someone bumped it with their car and damaged the drain valve. Need to repair that, and update wiring to today's standards.

I found a 6" plastic bowl that has a strainer on the top (i'll get a pic later on) that I think may attach to it. HOwever part is still missing.

It is definatly a inlet, there are 2 inlets going into the filter in teh garage. (both valved luckily)

[Mr T]

I found this in the pool room. I think it is part of the 'skimmer' that is missing off that inlet pipe that sticks out waiting to kill someone jumping into the pool. If it is the skimmer, part is missing. If I hold it over the pipe, centered. It comes close to the edge of the pool and looks like it iwll fit there.

Anyone seen one of these? Is there a replacement available? If not, what can i retrofit into that spot?
(Paddock pools at least this location is long long long out of business). No idea what the origional filter system was to this either.

[Bumblerazz]

I'm not sure, but I have a vague recollection of an aunt having one of these things. It floats, right? If it does I think it fits loosely over a funnel type thing, thus "skimming" the surface, removing leaves and dust that floats on top.

If you can't find a replacement or rig something up to get it to work, I would just leave a hole in the wall. It won't skim the surface but it'll provide the return and the pump has a strainer.

Maybe someone else has a better solution.

[Mr T]

I think you are thinking of a chlorinator. THey can float around in teh pool.

I'm thinking that the 2nd half of this attached to that pipe sticking out. The water level should be in the tiled area along the top lip. If something like this was attached to that pipe it would set the level about where it needs to be. As it is now the level would be a good ways below the tile.

[Bumblerazz]

Yea, a chlorinator floats around as well.

Like I said before I'm not positive about this but I think the old systems, to compensate for variations in water level as well as waves created by people splashing about, had the intake (as seen in your pic) sitting loosely over a funnel and it rose and fell with the water. This is why there are two valved pipes to the filter, so you can adjust the uptake so that it won't suck too much air. As most pool operators will tell you, their skimmers work best when there is just enough water going in to maximise surface suction yet still have enough water to cover the inlet.

Does the plastic thing float?