So I went to this 5 hour seminar last weekend... WOW!

[Guido]

Seminar titled: "An old house restoration workshop". Geared towards century old homes and presented by Dr. Christopher Cooper .. creator and editor-in-chief of Edifice Magazine. This guy DID sound like he knows what he's talking about and he's done restoration work on many national monuments worldwide.

But some things he said I found questionable such as:

1) Using a vapour barrier in your walls is a huge mistake since when warm, humid air hits the barrier it will condense and travel down the wall rotting the wood it sits on. To make even a little bit of sense a vapor barrier would have to be installed on both the inside AND outside of a wall.

2) Vapour barriers in walls don't make sense if you don't also put vapour barriers in the floor/ceiling, so what's the point of having a "sealed" room with a huge "hole" above and below?

3) Insulation in walls do more harm than good since they collect water and keep the walls moist. A properly sealed wall (from drafts) will do a better job in minimizing heat transfer by just leaving an air space in the walls since air is an excellent insulator. Even considering our Canadian winters he said he would still go with no insulation.

4) Since heat rises, insualtion in walls does very little and is much better to be installed in the attic.

5) He has proven through intensive studies that 100 year old wood windows with a simple storm window have a better "R-value" than 6 month old vinyl windows with low E, argon gas, and all that other "hype".

6) Using blown-type insulation in the attic is a waste of money since after 6 months the 2ft of insulation will compress to 4 inches. It's much better to install batt-type insulation.

7) No need to install anything more than R-20 on any non-horizontal surfaces in the attic.

What do you guys think of the above comments he made? Are they only applicable to century old homes and not newer (< 50 years) homes?

[K2eoj]

Some interesting points but I've never been a one shoe fits all guy on insulation. Although the above statements might be valid, I'm still not a one shoe guy.

I've been hearing about these foam panel walls/ ceilings. The idea sounds interesting.K2

[Wgoodrich]

Sometimes long convincing credentials are a sales job to convince you they know what they are talking about. Not saying he does not saying he doesn't. However below is a copy of what he said and my thoughts, knowledge, and experiences on the subject.

Remodel is often different in concern than new buildings. I will speak of a few concerns with remodel versus new as they hit me while I type.




HE SAID;
Seminar titled: "An old house restoration workshop". Geared towards century old homes and presented by Dr. Christopher Cooper .. creator and editor-in-chief of Edifice Magazine. This guy DID sound like he knows what he's talking about and he's done restoration work on many national monuments worldwide.


REPLY;
You will have to do your research and read all you can read then decide for yourself if he knows what he is talking about. I may be giving you a major sales pitch to convince you I know what I am talking about also. Only you can be the judge of that and only after you have done a complete research on the subject.

HE SAID;
But some things he said I found questionable such as:

1) Using a vapour barrier in your walls is a huge mistake since when warm, humid air hits the barrier it will condense and travel down the wall rotting the wood it sits on. To make even a little bit of sense a vapor barrier would have to be installed on both the inside AND outside of a wall.


REPLY;
The Code requires a vapor barrier on the warm side of both walls and ceilings. Notice I said warm side. That is the side towards the inside of the house with the insulation keeping the cold separated to the outside of that wall. Example is something you should be able to remember. In our childhood we had single pane glass in our homes. The single pane glass had a cold outside and a warm inside water dripped down the glass in the winter. I believe this is what he is referring to. Now today we install an insulated glass with two panes of glass with an air gap between the two glass sheets. The window no longer has water dripping down the glass because the cold air is not hitting directly on the inside glass due to the air gap between glass sheets. Same principle applies with a vapor barrier as required on the warm side of ceilings and walls with the insulation installed between the ambient temp outside and that vapor barrier. This promotes no condensation on the vapor barrier.


HE SAID;
2) Vapour barriers in walls don't make sense if you don't also put vapour barriers in the floor/ceiling, so what's the point of having a "sealed" room with a huge "hole" above and below?


REPLY;
The Code if enforced calls for a vapor barrier in your crawl space or under the floor of a basement then it also calls for insulation on the perimeter of that crawl and basement wall or insulaton installed in the floor joists which I do not recommend. The Code also requires a vapor barrier installed on the warm side of all ceilings below the attic insulation blanket. It sounds like this guy has been doing it for years but has not kept up with continuing education units learning that much of what was done in yesteryear was wrong and we have much better more proven ways today on both new and old buildings. Absolutely do not install a double vapor barrier or you will trap moisture between the two vapor barriers doing exactly what he is preaching against.


HE SAID;
3) Insulation in walls do more harm than good since they collect water and keep the walls moist. A properly sealed wall (from drafts) will do a better job in minimizing heat transfer by just leaving an air space in the walls since air is an excellent insulator. Even considering our Canadian winters he said he would still go with no insulation.


REPLY;
This makes no sense at all. If you properly seal the outside walls using rain shields and proper siding or brick installations then where is the water coming from. Insulation can be warm on one side and cold on the other side and not condensate water. If you properly seal the walls then rain can't get in to wet the insulation. R value of a 3 1/2" air space is about an R1 yet we are required by code in the breadbasket of the USA to have a minimum wall insulation of an R 13 then in Canada you are required much higher than that in R value for the walls. Lack of formal schooling has made him stick by the old ways of doing consruction without changing after we learned what we did decades ago didn't work. We build today by much higher engineering principles. Back 2 or more decades ago we built by the seat of the pants. We learned and changed he stayed the same. What he is saying was said about 30 or more years ago. Just my opinion and experience from those times. He sounds like a recording of my fore fathers that also believed what they said at the time. Thanks that they promoted continuing studies for me or I would probably be stuck in the past.

Now when they came up with fiber blown insulation and started blowing into the walls of old homes it was improperly done at the time but they also believed in what they were doing. Back in the 60s and 70s they blew fiber insulation into walls of older homes and the next year the paint pealed off. Again we learned from that and changed the product and installation processes to eliminate that problem. Then if that older home was wired in knob and tube wiring the NEC forbids you to cover that older knob and tube wiring with insulation. You either rewire the house with romex or leave without insulation. The old knob and tube wiring style is forbidden to be covered with insulation.

HE SAID;
4) Since heat rises, insualtion in walls does very little and is much better to be installed in the attic.


REPLY;

In the breadbasket of the USA insulation is required to be installed in both walls and ceilings. R13 for walls R 30 for ceiliings in the middle USA per the IRC and IBC.

HE SAID;
5) He has proven through intensive studies that 100 year old wood windows with a simple storm window have a better "R-value" than 6 month old vinyl windows with low E, argon gas, and all that other "hype".

REPLY;

He has only proven the new manufacturing methods of double pane with an air gap is better than what we did in yesteryear. For crying out loud we install storm windows to reduce condensation and rot of the older wood windows clear back in the 50s. Today we build both vinyl and wood double pane windows to do the same thing as the storm window only done by normal manufacturing methods today in the newer windows. The air gap is a plus to help reduce convection heat loss making the inside window pane much warmer than just a single pane of glass and it resolved the condensation problem also. You can do the same thing he is suggesting by installing plastic sheets over the windows of an older single pane home creating the dead air gap found in normal manufacturing methods today using two panes of glass with the same dead air gap between the windows.

HE SAID;
6) Using blown-type insulation in the attic is a waste of money since after 6 months the 2ft of insulation will compress to 4 inches. It's much better to install batt-type insulation.

REPLY;

He is way over speaking this claim. Love to see him try to back that one up. Cellulose fiber blown in insullation in the attic if 2' thick may settle about 4" but never 18". Love to hear him speak of that last big fish he caught. Sorry but when open mouth stick in foot. It is common that insulation installers if they desire 24" of insulation they will blow in 28" and expect the minor settling of about 4" total. It is called anticipation of a known fact. I have been in attics I was involved in insulating 30 years ago and boy the insulation is still there settling maybe 5% in thirty years.

HE SAID;
7) No need to install anything more than R-20 on any non-horizontal surfaces in the attic.

REPLY;

Non horizontal surface means walls or rafters. If you have insulated the ceiling which is normally done such as middle USA with an R 30 why would you insulate non horizontal surfaces? If he is talking a cathedral ceiling that ceiling also requires in middle USA an R 30 requiring special framing design to ensure the approximate 9" fiberglass insulation and required 1" air gap in that cathedral ceilings. Those trying to blow in insulation in a cathedral ceiling is going to have much fun trying.

YOU SAID;
What do you guys think of the above comments he made? Are they only applicable to century old homes and not newer (< 50 years) homes?

REPLY;

If you strip an older home to open studs or even leaving the lathe you would be short sheeting yourself if you did not rebuild meeting today's code rules. If you are remodling leaving the older plaster walls and you have knob and tube wiring and not rewiring you have no choice but to not insulate the walls or ceiilings in that older home per NEC rules.

You should read more on the subject and get all the info you can then make your own decision if he is valid or not.

Hope this Helps and Good Luck

Wg

[K2eoj]

Mr Goodrich, when you refer to "The code" which code are you referring too??I'm familiar with the UBC and the International but there are a few others out there. And then there are the local addendums. Am I missing something??

[Wgoodrich]

Both the UBC aka Uniform Building Code and the CABO code authors have joined the international Code council. If you go the the CABO or UBC authors web sites they now refer you to the International Building Code and the International Residential Code both replacing the older UBC and CABO Code. Those two older building codes for residential and industrial UBC and CABO are no longer in existance. These code making authors Joined the International Code Council that created in conjunction with all the National Codes except the NEC to make up the International Code Council and create new updated building Code books now adopted in most states. Try the following link then read to your hearts content. You can learn the hows and why the several building codes such as the southern building council and the Uniform building Councill all joined to make one national code now also accepted by many other countries in an attempt to have one code Internationally throughout the world.

Copied directly from the "about" at top of the ICC web site page;

Origin

The International Code Council (ICC) was established in 1994 as a nonprofit organization dedicated to developing a single set of comprehensive and coordinated national model construction codes. The founders of the ICC are Building Officials and Code Administrators International, Inc. (BOCA), International Conference of Building Officials (ICBO), and Southern Building Code Congress International, Inc. (SBCCI). Since the early part of the last century, these nonprofit organizations developed the three separate sets of model codes used throughout the United States. Although regional code development has been effective and responsive to our country’s needs, the time came for a single set of codes. The nation’s three model code groups responded by creating the International Code Council and by developing codes without regional limitations the International Codes.

The link to the ICC that has replaced all the older code making councils by joining them all together can be found below;

http://www.iccsafe.org/

HOpe this helps

Wg

[Mr Fixit eh]

Well spoken replies, Wg.

The OP is in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. He would need to consult the city of Toronto building inspection department for details on local amendments to the Canadian Building Code and Ontario Building Code.

The Canada Mortgage and Housing Corp. has done years of extensive research in the CANADIAN environment and you will find lots of their articles available at http://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/en/flash.html

Another very useful publication for insulation and weather-sealing retrofit units in the Canadian climate is the "Consumers Guide to Keeping the Heat In", published by the Canadian Dept. of Energy, Mines + Resources. It is available on-line http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/keep_heat_in/index.cfm, or you can order a printed version. It's 133 pages of extremely detailed, step-by-step instructions for retrofitters.

Although there are other codes and recommended practices, such as the BuildingScience method, they do not all apply in most Canadian jurisdictions.

I do not know the gentleman that Guido refers to, but as Wg points out much of the advice is just plain wrong, so I would sure NOT want to take HIS word that he is an expert.

[K2eoj]

Thanks you for your response. I didn't know that the International Code was adopted consistently across the states. That will make life easier.

[Guido]

Remodel is often different in concern than new buildings.


Yeah one thing to keep in mind is that this workshop focused on 100+ year old homes, so some things may be different.


You will have to do your research and read all you can read then decide for yourself if he knows what he is talking about. I may be giving you a major sales pitch to convince you I know what I am talking about also. Only you can be the judge of that and only after you have done a complete research on the subject.
I hear ya! The reason I started this thread is because some of his comments went completely against what I learned from here and other sources, so I thought I'd throw some of his comments here for discussion. But your replies are pretty much what I expected. How much I wish you were there to have a one on one discussion!



The Code requires a vapor barrier on the warm side of both walls and ceilings. Notice I said warm side. That is the side towards the inside of the house with the insulation keeping the cold separated to the outside of that wall.

He did mention this, then he said "...and guess what happens in the summer? Now the vapour barrier is on the COLD side of the wall". And the humid outside air will still condense on it inside the wall.
He also said if the barrier is required on the inside, then what about all these newer houses with that Tyvek wrap on the wall exterior? Isn't that now on the outside? He said it doesn't make sense, so it's best to have no vapour barrier, and whatever moisture gets in there can just as easily get out.



The Code if enforced calls for a vapor barrier in your crawl space or under the floor of a basement then it also calls for insulation on the perimeter of that crawl and basement wall or insulaton installed in the floor joists which I do not recommend. The Code also requires a vapor barrier installed on the warm side of all ceilings below the attic insulation blanket. It sounds like this guy has been doing it for years but has not kept up with continuing education units learning that much of what was done in yesteryear was wrong and we have much better more proven ways today on both new and old buildings. Absolutely do not install a double vapor barrier or you will trap moisture between the two vapor barriers doing exactly what he is preaching against.

He said if the entire room doesn't have a vapour barrier (all 6 sides) then it doesn't make sense to have a barrier on only 4 of the 6 sides. According to him this is another reason why vapour barriers are a bad idea.



This makes no sense at all. If you properly seal the outside walls using rain shields and proper siding or brick installations then where is the water coming from. Insulation can be warm on one side and cold on the other side and not condensate water. If you properly seal the walls then rain can't get in to wet the insulation.

He said the moisture also comes from the inside of the house. The average person perspires 2 gallons a day, bla bla bla. Taking a shower without a vent fan, drying clothes indoors on a rack, running a dhishwasher, etc. are all sure ways of killing your home. He is really against any excessive humidity. He said you should have the absolute bare minimum RH you can handle. I asked about hardwood floors and what would happen with very dry air, and he said "who cares?" the floor will shrink and the spaces between the boards get larger. It's part of the character of an old home.


In the breadbasket of the USA insulation is required to be installed in both walls and ceilings. R13 for walls R 30 for ceiliings in the middle USA per the IRC and IBC.


I think this guy is much more interested in preserving the home, than following IRC and IBC requirements. One lady said she was renovating her home and the building inspector is forcing her to bring the insulation up to current standards. He said don't do it, and if she has a problem to give the inspector his number. I'm curious to see what he can do.


He has only proven the new manufacturing methods of double pane with an air gap is better than what we did in yesteryear. For crying out loud we install storm windows to reduce condensation and rot of the older wood windows clear back in the 50s. Today we build both vinyl and wood double pane windows to do the same thing as the storm window only done by normal manufacturing methods today in the newer windows. The air gap is a plus to help reduce convection heat loss making the inside window pane much warmer than just a single pane of glass and it resolved the condensation problem also. You can do the same thing he is suggesting by installing plastic sheets over the windows of an older single pane home creating the dead air gap found in normal manufacturing methods today using two panes of glass with the same dead air gap between the windows.

He said the new double-pane windows are good for 6 months, but after that the seal between the panes leaks and their effectiveness drops sharply. He said it's a complete waste of money to go with new vinyl (and aluminum) windows and will cost a lot more in the long run. And original windows can easily last 100+ years with proper maintenance, but vinyl windows are garbage after 15-20.


Cellulose fiber blown in insullation in the attic if 2' thick may settle about 4" but never 18". Love to hear him speak of that last big fish he caught. Sorry but when open mouth stick in foot. It is common that insulation installers if they desire 24" of insulation they will blow in 28" and expect the minor settling of about 4" total. It is called anticipation of a known fact. I have been in attics I was involved in insulating 30 years ago and boy the insulation is still there settling maybe 5% in thirty years.

This is what I figured, but I wasn't sure so I kept my mouth shut.


Non horizontal surface means walls or rafters. If you have insulated the ceiling which is normally done such as middle USA with an R 30 why would you insulate non horizontal surfaces? If he is talking a cathedral ceiling that ceiling also requires in middle USA an R 30 requiring special framing design to ensure the approximate 9" fiberglass insulation and required 1" air gap in that cathedral ceilings. Those trying to blow in insulation in a cathedral ceiling is going to have much fun trying.

He said it was better to insulate the rafters, than the attic floor. He did mention about the airgap from the soffit to the roof top. He said you can use chicken wire to make a barrier to hold the insulation and provide the airgap, or his preferred method is using a 1/4 plywood and "getting some kid to punch holes in the board" as the barrier.


If you strip an older home to open studs or even leaving the lathe you would be short sheeting yourself if you did not rebuild meeting today's code rules. If you are remodling leaving the older plaster walls and you have knob and tube wiring and not rewiring you have no choice but to not insulate the walls or ceiilings in that older home per NEC rules.

I agree with you, but I think he'd rather have a properly preserved home, than modern "improvements".

I thought of a couple more things he said:

Some lady mentioned she has K & T wiring and he nearly flipped and said tear it out right away or her house will burn down. I remember reading (on this site I think) that if K & T is properly installed and maintained, then it's not really that dangerous. Anyway, I think he frightened her. She asked how to do it without tearing down all her original plaster walls and he said; "Simple, grab one wire and yank it hard to loosen it and as you pull it through use it as a snake to pull in the new wire". This made no sense to me. How do you staple it or position it properly?

Another thing he said is NEVER EVER use those expanding foam cans to insulate or seal holes/cracks. He said they're 90% water and will sit on the wood and just rot it away. I checked out a couple cans but they didn't mention the contents so I couldn't verify. Anyone know if there's any truth behind this as I've been considering using this stuff around the house.


In a nutshell, I'm not really concerned with what he said as everyone here has confirmed he may be a little off in his methods. I just thought it was interesting and something to share. I can't wait until the fall when he comes out with his own TV show on old home restoration. Regardless of some very questionable comments he made, I'm sure he has a wealth of knowledge when it comes to old homes. I did enjoy learning about clinkers and salmon bricks and that if you try to pressure wash the brick wall of one of those houses you can easily make a hole right through it! And that using Portland cement as mortar on those bricks will destroy them (use lime mortar). I did learn a lot.

[pushkins]

He is right expanding foam has a water content HOWEVER the method in which the foam dries is caused by the moisture content reacting with both the chemical foam and air. As the moisture content dries it causes a reaction in the foam base chemical that causes expansion which then causes drieing which causes expansion and so on, this process goes on untill the moisture content is completly exhausted and then there is no more expansion, there is none to very little moisture left in the foam after less than two days under normal conditions.
The foam spray you can buy for windows that stays soft, well that's basically the same principal except the chemical foam base is formulated to set before the moisture content is exhausted and therefor stay softer.

[Phelps]

Seminar titled: "An old house restoration workshop". Geared towards century old homes and presented by Dr. Christopher Cooper .. creator and editor-in-chief of Edifice Magazine. This guy DID sound like he knows what he's talking about and he's done restoration work on many national monuments worldwide.

But some things he said I found questionable such as:

1) Using a vapour barrier in your walls is a huge mistake since when warm, humid air hits the barrier it will condense and travel down the wall rotting the wood it sits on. To make even a little bit of sense a vapor barrier would have to be installed on both the inside AND outside of a wall.

2) Vapour barriers in walls don't make sense if you don't also put vapour barriers in the floor/ceiling, so what's the point of having a "sealed" room with a huge "hole" above and below?

3) Insulation in walls do more harm than good since they collect water and keep the walls moist. A properly sealed wall (from drafts) will do a better job in minimizing heat transfer by just leaving an air space in the walls since air is an excellent insulator. Even considering our Canadian winters he said he would still go with no insulation.

4) Since heat rises, insualtion in walls does very little and is much better to be installed in the attic.

5) He has proven through intensive studies that 100 year old wood windows with a simple storm window have a better "R-value" than 6 month old vinyl windows with low E, argon gas, and all that other "hype".

6) Using blown-type insulation in the attic is a waste of money since after 6 months the 2ft of insulation will compress to 4 inches. It's much better to install batt-type insulation.

7) No need to install anything more than R-20 on any non-horizontal surfaces in the attic.

What do you guys think of the above comments he made? Are they only applicable to century old homes and not newer (< 50 years) homes?

I think the lecturer was inspired by reading up on *dihydrogen monoxide* (if you have not seen this gag post, Google it). It's like the facts are all twisted.

1. Regarding vapor barrier in walls: I think there is a misconception that the plastic should get vapor on it at all...ANYwhere. You really don't even want it to condense on the INTERIOR side of it...let alone the exterior side of it...now DO you? And it shouldn't because the whole idea of insulation is to reduce the sudden transition between hot and cold. In theory, if you had 6 inch walls and the outside and inside building surfaces were of the same material, and it was 0 outside and 75 inside...in the middle of the insulation, it shlould be 37 1/2 degrees. If you went inward half more again, the temperature should be about 56 degrees. If you went inward half again further, the temperature there would be about 60 degrees. As you can see, the closer you get to the interior and the vapor barrier, the temperature at that point wil be very close to that of the interior temperature and there would not be any condensation, on the inside OR outide of the plastic, because of that fact. BUT...if you had JUST plastic, and no insulation (as suggested), the water surely would condense on the inside of the plastic.

Now there have been cases where contractors have vapor barriered the inside and outside of the wall cavity and THIS has created rot and mildew problems in the wall. In fact, about 20 years ago, give or take some, some big contractor who built this great big subdivision had a big lawsuit on their hands because they discovered the walls were rotting out on their homes due to the air-tight seal of the walls. The idea is to vapor barrier the inside, insulate good, and then use Tyvek house wrap outside because this stops moisture but still allows air to pass through it.


2. In the floor? This must apply to houses over crawl spaces I'm assuming...and crawl spaces that are insulated. Uninsulated floors really wouldn't need the barrier because the idea is to keep from having water vapor get into the insulation where it could freeze/melt. Floors are less likely to condense due to their already being colder. Also, moisture probably has a tendencey to rise with the heat. Regarding the ceiling, I do see some validity here, to what he says, if one really puts barrier on the walls but doesn't do the ceiling. But I have heard that you can use a couple coats of latex, or the shellac-based vapor barrier paint, and it is an effective barrier. But then, why not do the walls this way if this works? Maybe because plasticing or kraft papering a wall is easier than doing a ceiling (single handed) and applying 2 coats of paint by roller on a ceiling is easier?

3. This is just plain silly. Dead air space is not as good as the same space filled with insulation...period. If that were true, you would have to believe in a big conspiracy that the insulation companies have created a 'problem' that does not even exist. Insulation slows down the heat/cold transfer slower than what plain air slows it to. I think the guy is getting air and vacuum mixed up. Air contains not just molecules, but moisture that the heat can be carried away on, for one thing.

4. This too is silly. Imagine filling your house with water and drilling tiny holes in it in the walls and the ceiling. The holes represent heat/cold transfer. And this transfer does indeed take place at the walls as well as the ceiling. The transfer will be LESS on the wall near the floor, but the transfer speeds up the closer you get to the ceiling. If your thermostat says 75 at the 5 foot standard height, it could be 80 at the ceiling (like for a 10 foot ceiling, as I have actually measured such change.) But it might still be 79 one foot down; 78 2 feet down, etc.

5. Well...maybe...IF the wood windows have almost been painted shut over the years and the storm windows have been also, and then the newer vinyl windows have warped so that the felt weather stripping has big gaps (a common prtoblem I have seen with some brands if they aren't shimmed in the middle.) I would say the poor insulation points of the vinyl window is right where the aluminum seal is for the thermopane and also at those felt seals. But most older homes I have seen where the wood windows have NOT been painted shut, is these things leak like a seive!

6. Are you SURE he said compresses down to 4 inches, or that it compresses and loses 4 inches, like Wg suggested? Some settling is probably actually a GOOD thing. I have seen attics insulated with that different type of spun white fibergalss that resembles feathers and in MY opinion, it is TOOO fluffy and airy. I have seen attic ceilings covered in dripping wet black mildew and you can even feel the heat getting past this stuff! It's great stuff if you don't want to get scratchy. But that is all the merits it has, IMO. And if you have to trapse in an attic, it will compress this fluff just as one could compress a loaf of Wonder bread into a golf ball or compress cotton candy. I have had to wreck my feet/ankles walking in the v's of trusses to avoid pancaking this insulation. When you try to refluff it up, you don't have enough to do it with as it like disappears. :( I have seen attics with 18-24 inches of this stuff in the attic and I can STILL feel the heat getting past this stuff. The moisture can too easily zig and zag it's way through it, I think.

Wg, do you have any thoughts or difference of opinion regarding this type of insulation I speak of?

7. Non-horizontal I guess would equate to vertical cavities? You don't even need ANY there. You just need it in the ceiling joists, to be a barrier for the heated space below.

[pushkins]

dihydrogen monoxide ...... I say ban the nasty, nasty stuff immediately !!
except in the following cases, cleaning, gardening, swimming and the most important "beer making"

[Mr T]

Yea, we cant ban it in beer! Coors would go out of business immediatly!:D

[WFO]

Everybody's already hit these points pretty hard, but I'd like to throw in a couple of totally unsubstatiated :rolleyes: observations of my own.

1. Vapor barriers. "Warm side of room" depends where you are. Here in Texas near Houston, I've spent the last two winters celebrating Christmas by drinking a beer outside in my T-shirt. So far this year we've gone below freezing twice. Summer temperatures go from May to October, so my "warm" side is the outside.
2."Heat" does not rise. Mediums capable of movement (such as air or water) are what rise. So he defeats his own argument by going for the open wall concept vs. insulation. Glass is a horrible insulator, but that's what most of the batting is made of. Why? Because by bulk, the insulation is mostly air and the spun glass is what makes the space "dead" (ie-no movement), which is infinitely easier than caulking every seam. If he could seal a wall to the point there was absolutely NO air movement, the interior air would be so stale as to be unhealthy.
3. Single pane windows. Again he contradicts himself, claiming dead air space is great for walls, but not for windows.
4. Insulation levels. Here I would have to agree in only the regard that there is a law of diminishing returns when it comes to insulation levels. The graph of installation/insulation costs to actual savings (ie-$ insulation vs $ Kwh) is not linear. Years ago when people were paying $.05 cents a Kwh, the trade-off was somewhere around R-19. Obviously that point has risen. But "R" factor is still a measure of the rate of transfer of heat, so the differential has a lot to do with it. So me trying to maintain 78 degrees when it's 101 outside is a lot easier than the Canadians trying to maintain 60 degrees inside when it's minus 30 outside. (Yes, 60 degrees was a wild guess....I have no idea how toasty Canadians like their winters :D )

Basically it sounds like a lot of "good" theory that does not translate at all to reality.

[Guido]

Basically it sounds like a lot of "good" theory that does not translate at all to reality.
I think that pretty much sums it up.
When he was saying these comments I noticed the audience would gasp as they couldn't believe what he was saying. I feel sorry for all the peope he scared.
I don't think he'll come back any time soon, but if he does I'll surely take the workshop again and point out what you guys posted. It makes so much more sense.
I can't wait for his TV show this fall - too bad the feedback will not be publicized.

If anyone is interested, I have his email address. It would be interesting to ask him to clarify a couple points he made. Maybe his explanation in his own words will make more sense than the way I'm explaining it.

[Phelps]

I think that pretty much sums it up.
When he was saying these comments I noticed the audience would gasp as they couldn't believe what he was saying. I feel sorry for all the peope he scared.
I don't think he'll come back any time soon, but if he does I'll surely take the workshop again and point out what you guys posted. It makes so much more sense.
I can't wait for his TV show this fall - too bad the feedback will not be publicized.

If anyone is interested, I have his email address. It would be interesting to ask him to clarify a couple points he made. Maybe his explanation in his own words will make more sense than the way I'm explaining it.

Tell him that you are a member of this internet forum where people ask pros and know-it-alls on how to fix things that have to do with houses, and that the pros and know-it-alls have issues with some of the stuff he says. Then ask him if he is ever in the mood to try to take people to task. Send him over. :)