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suemarkp
February 19th, 2004, 02:24 PM
What are you grounding, your electrical service or old individual electrical outlets? It sounds like you're doing the second case, in which case both solutions you presented are wrong.

Lets take the easier case first. If grounding a service panel, it needs to go to two ground rods at least 6' apart and must also connect to your metal water piping. If this metal water pipe comes into the house from a metal pipe buried in the ground, then it needs to have the ground wire attached within 5' of where the pipe enters the house. If the buried pipe outside is 100% plastic, then you connect the ground wire to the metal pipe anywhere that is accessible on that pipe.

Second case. If you're trying to ground old ungrounded receptacles, the only legal way now is to run an individual wire from that receptacle all the way back to the service panel (where you probably won't have enough holes to terminate all these new grounding wires). You never want to ground a circuit by connecting to a rod or pipe! This is a major pain, and you can spend 10% more effort and pull new and better cable to replace the old wires there. An alternative is to leave them ungrounded, but protect the receptacles with GFCI receptacles or breakers. The first receptacle on a string can be a GFCI and it will protect all downstream outlets. However, there could be some implementation issues with this in an older house, especially if wires have been crossed or shared somewhere.

In both cases, the size of the wire used matters. For the first case we need to know the size of your service in amps (100, 150, 200, etc). For the second case, the ground wire size depends on the size breaker or fuse protecting that circuit.

Unregistered
February 19th, 2004, 03:11 PM
Hi Mark, thank you for your reply.

I'm sorry I didn't give all the info. ;)

None of the outlets were grounded, so they grounded them by running wire to each of the outlets, under the baseboards and then to a copper pipe driven into the ground. I guess I need to call a licensed electrician and get this mess straightened out...huh?

Since you are never supposed to do it this way, what could happen? Is it very dangerous?

Thanks again!

Kathy

Unregistered
February 19th, 2004, 04:34 PM
I recently bought my first home and it is a fixer. I hired an unlicensed crew to do some of the work (painting, etc.). One of the items that they talked me into was running ground wire. I didn't realize that I need a permit, and now I believe they have done the work incorrectly.

Half of my house in on a slab, the other on a raised foundation. I believe the work on the raised foundation is correct, however, the slab is not. They ran the ground wire behind the base boards and then grounded it to a copper pipe in the planter outside the room.

A friend of mine looked at this and said that there should be a copper pipe driven directly into the slab under each socket. I trusted his opinion here, and refused to pay the unlicensed crew for their work ($780) until I can verify what work is done properly (for which I will pay them). This crew SWEARS that it's ok...

Who's right? Also, what can I do at this point to get this work corrected and permitted? I'm scared to death that there will be a fire or something and my insurance will not cover it.

Thanks in advance for any help you can give me.

Kathy K.

Wgoodrich
February 19th, 2004, 04:47 PM
COPIED SECTION NEC 2002;

250.130.C

(C) Nongrounding Receptacle Replacement or Branch Circuit Extensions. The equipment grounding conductor of a grounding-type receptacle or a branch-circuit extension shall be permitted to be connected to any of the following:
(1) Any accessible point on the grounding electrode system as described in 250.50
(2) Any accessible point on the grounding electrode conductor
(3) The equipment grounding terminal bar within the enclosure where the branch circuit for the receptacle or branch circuit originates
(4) For grounded systems, the grounded service conductor within the service equipment enclosure
(5) For ungrounded systems, the grounding terminal bar within the service equipment enclosure

PERSONAL EXPLAINATION;
1 Grounding electrode conductor is that sole conductor installed connecting grounding electrode [commonly ground rod] and the main service rated panel.
or within 5' of the entrance of a metal water pipe entering the house from underground in direct contact with the earth.


2 Grounding electrode conductor is that sole conductor installed connecting grounding electrode [commonly ground rod] and the main service rated panel.

3 grounding bar inside you main service panel.

4 the neutral service conductor inside the main service rated panel.

5 again inside the service panel.

Notice there is no rule allowing separate ground rods to be installed connecting those two prong changed to three prong receptacles involved in this rule for changing from two wire to three wire receptacles.

Also be aware that if each replaced receptacle three prong from two prong is GFI protected this is a rule also in the NEC.

Also be aware if existing you may leave it as a two prong receptacle.

Hope this helps

Wg