fuse boxes and subpanels

[ccs]

I'm in the process of remodeling an old parsonage (built in the 1930s by volunteer labor) and have a couple of questions for you grizzled veterans...

Details:
·1930s farmhouse
·1200 sf two-story main living area and full 900sf basement
·knob & tube
·100 amp panel. It has 2 large tube fuse holders, one for "lights", the other for "range". It also has 4 screw-in fuses, all 30amp.
·1 subpanel (for the range) with (2) 20amp breakers. One of the red wires going to this box is wired directly to the meter.

The knob and tube wiring has been spliced into in a very haphazard way. The kitchen, living, dining, and half the basement are on one circuit. Since the church is on a very limited budget, I'm only able to do a few rooms at a time. As I am remodeling each room, I'm replacing the k & t with romex. I’d like to run the new circuits to a new subpanel.

Now for my question…

Is it possible to add a subpanel and use the fuse box as a jumper or as a main breaker? If so, where on the old fuse panel would I supply the subpanel?

Thanks for your time and I’m sure I’ll have a couple of more questions.

[6pack]

able to follow some of your posted question's. A bit confused about your statement " 1 subpanel(for the range)and (2) 20 amp breakers. One of the red wires going to this box is wired directly to meter" ?? What are you saying? Is this subpanel a 2 circuit panel that is tapped from the Range Pullout.(but then red to meter does'nt fit in??) a bit lost here in your explanation. Is the range a gas range fed from one of the 20 amp breakers in that sub? Repost exactly wire for wire what you have there? what's feeding 2cir sub/ do you have electric range there 240V? ETC. Is there possibly (2) meter sockets one unused and this 2 circuit panel powers a water heater???(old system only both RD & BLK ran to W/H meter if this is what you have??Plus a yellow ran to your main panel?) I would be concerned with the 4 30AMP fuses you refer to! check the wire sizes from below those fuses that I'a gas range fed from one of the 20 amp breakers in that sub? Repost exactly wire for wire what you have there? what's feeding 2cir sub/ do you have electric range there 240V? ETC. Is there possibly (2) meter sockets one unused and this 2 circuit panel powers a water heater???(old system only both RD & BLK ran to W/H meter if this is what you have??Plus a yellow ran to your main panel?) I would be concerned with the 4 30AMP fuses you refer to! check the wire sizes from below those fuses that I'm assuming feed your branch circuits.(concern here) Repost exactly wire for wire what you have there? what's feeding 2cir sub/ do you have electric range there 240V? ETC. Is there possibly (2) meter sockets one unused and this 2 circuit panel powers a water heater???(old system only both RD & BLK ran to W/H meter if this is what you have??Plus a yellow ran to your main panel?) I would be concerned with the 4 30AMP fuses you refer to! check the wire sizes from below those fuses that I'm assumm assuming feed your branch circuits.(concern here) Repost exactly wire for wire what you have there? what's feeding 2cir sub/ do you have electric range there 240V? ETC. Is there possibly (2) meter sockets one unused and this 2 circuit panel powers a water heater???(old system only both RD & BLK ran to W/H meter if this is what you have??Plus a yellow ran to your main panel?) I would be concerned with the 4 30AMP fuses you refer to! check the wire sizes from below those fuses that I'm assuming feed your branch circuits. Repost these findings and we'' give her another go round. Also take a look at opening page of WEB and go to to sight map and review others items you may need to follow in your general circuit, outlet and light installation's.( do this)

[ccs]

Okay, I'll have to double check everything tomorrow, but let me try to clarify as best as I can.

"One of the red wires going to this box is wired directly to meter" ??
This box (maybe subpanel is an incorrect description) is about 6"x8" in size and has a double 20amp circuit breaker. It has 3 red wires going to it and one of them is definitely wired to the meter. The range hookup is for an electric range. I'll have to check and see where the other two red input wires come from.

I'll make a complete map and figure out how to post it. I discovered some other issues today as well :(

[ccs]

"Also take a look at opening page of WEB and go to to sight map and review others items you may need to follow in your general circuit, outlet and light installation's.( do this)"

Where are you talking about? Can you provide a link? Thanks.

[Wgoodrich]

Wannabbee, this one you may want to be concerned about occupancy and fire ratings being a dual occupancy building [dwelling and church]. If the church and parsonage is one attached buildnig then the following may be the cause of your questions. Church if more than 100 poeple will be considered as a place of assembly requiring conduit and exit lights as well as maybe emergeny back up lighting. Depending on if a fire wall separating the two buildings. I suspect if parsonage same building as the church that red wire coming directly from the meter may be emergency power source for exit lighting.

If separate buildings then red may be a parallel service with a second hot wire he is not seeing feeding a second main service panel.

We need to clarify structural design and ratings of building and confirm that red wire connection before you get too deep into this project.

I suspect Wannabbee is suggesting you go to my main page of our second web site where two self help electrical books are published for free to anyone plus much more including how it works and wiring design picture links. To get to that web site look at the top right corner of this page you are looking at.

There are sevearl specific chapters on that web site I suspect Wannabbe has in mind linked below, as well as much more available on the main page linked above on this page you are viwing; Click the following link and pick the subject you wish to read and learn about;

http://www.homewiringandmore.com/homewiringusa/2002/maindwelling/index.html

hope this helps

Wg

[ccs]

WG,
This is a separate dwelling. I'm in the process of doing a load calculation and a circuit map. I'll sketch out exactly what is going on and post a picture or drawing with descriptions.

I have checked out your other site (very helpful) and am reading a couple of books to better familiarize myself with the correct verbiage. I'm pretty competent at wiring away from the panel. This is my first experience with a fuse panel, however. And my first experience in sorting out obviously overloaded and sloppily done work. I also understand the basic safety needs and concerns.

From my preliminary calcs, I believe I am going to have to use a gas range and gas dryer. It already has a gas furnace and gas water heater. There are, however, 2 refrigerators and 2 large freezers. I'll have to do more investigation to find out what circuit they are on. I'll post my results this evening.

Thanks again for your time and for sharing your knowledge.

[ccs]

Okay, I've got some clarifications for you. I spent the day cleaning up the fusebox. There was some seriously hacked up wiring going on.

I removed two small panels that had hot wires going to them and the load wires went to open boxes. Panel #1 was apparently for an electric water heater (now using gas). One of the two red #8 wires was wired directly to the meter :shock: The second was to the hot lead at the top of the 60 amp main fuse. I removed the meter and totally removed panel #1 and all the wiring. Panel #2 was something of a mystery. It was at one time a fused shut off switch, but at some point someone had tried to remove a blown fuse and there was a lot of residual copper and melted metal. The hot wires were wired to the hot lead on the 60 amp main fuse and the neutral to the neutral buss bar. This box was still hot, although the load wires dead ended (just cut off and not in a box. One was in the attic, the other in the basement.) I imagine this may have been for an old heating system. While the meter was off, I removed this damaged panel and all of the wiring.

Now things are looking a lot cleaner. While I was at it, I removed the electric range hookup. After doing some calculations, I determined that with a 100amp main panel, I am going to have to use a gas range and gas dryer.

Now, I need to sort out what to do with the 4 30 amp fuses. I've got a breakdown of the current load on each fuse, which I'll post later.