Finishing Basement

[quique00]

I'm doing the electrical in my finished basement (it's a walk-out). Got the permit already and have a couple of questions:
1. I'm going to have an entertainment system (i.e. Big Screen, Amp.), Fish Tank, Refrigerator, and Computer with Printer w/ other devices. I decided to go with a 20 Amp Circuit, Is this enough for the items listed above?? If yes, then do I also need 20 Amp Switches (Dimmer), Receptacles and GFCI??? Getting different Inputs from everyone. I'm assuming the answer is yes.
2. I did not incorporate base board heating in my plan. We are trying to decide if it's needed. I think we do for the winter months.
Is it difficult to install for a novice electrician and how do I choose the length of base board heating needed??
3. I have Dry-Lok the basement walls to reduce moisture. Should I also Dry-Lok the basement floor (concrete) to reduce moisture?? We are installing Berber carpet w/ 6 Lb. pad.

Thanks.

[Wgoodrich]

YOU SAID;
I'm doing the electrical in my finished basement (it's a walk-out).
Got the permit already and have a couple of questions:
1. I'm going to have an entertainment system (i.e. Big Screen, Amp.), Fish Tank, Refrigerator, and Computer with Printer w/ other devices.

REPLY;
If it were me I would run three circuits. Fish tank, refrigerator lights on one circuit. Computer equipment area on second circuit. Entertainment equipment on third circuit to limit interference involved on electronic equipment. Code would allow all on same circuit.

YOU SAID;
I decided to go with a 20 Amp Circuit, Is this enough for the items listed above?? If yes, then do I also need 20 Amp Switches (Dimmer), Receptacles and GFCI???

REPLY;
20 amp circuits are fine. The NEC allows switches, GFI devices and Receptacles all as 15 amp rated devices installed on 20 amp rated branch circuits.

YOU SAID;
Getting different Inputs from everyone. I'm assuming the answer is yes.
2. I did not incorporate base board heating in my plan. We are trying to decide if it's needed. I think we do for the winter months.
Is it difficult to install for a novice electrician and how do I choose the length of base board heating needed??

REPLY;
If you have no heat ducts serving that area then you will need heat.
Problem is I do not have your location to tell you heating degree days for your area. If you are in the breadbasket of the USA then the following forumla should set your baseboard heat sizing design.

Each room calculated individually as zone heating. width times height time length times 1.5 for heating degree day adjustment. This would be the total KW required to heat the room calculated. Then to find the number of feet required divide that answer by 250 watts per foot of heater. This will tell you the total feet of baseboard heat you need.

Be aware the heaters should be placed along the outside walls near any doors and under any windows to block the cold convection influx of windows and heat escape of doors for best comfort. Also be aware no receptacles or cords are allowed to be installed over those heating elements of those heaters. Also think of furniture placement being aware that you are not allowed to block the heaters or place curtains in front of the heating elements.

YOU SAID;
3. I have Dry-Lok the basement walls to reduce moisture. Should I also Dry-Lok the basement floor (concrete) to reduce moisture?? We are installing Berber carpet w/ 6 Lb. pad.

REPLY;
I understand you purged for moisture resistance on the outside of you basement walls. Did you install insulation on the outside of those basement walls. Minimum insulation value for those basement wall exposed to exterior in bread basket of USA is R7.5. This would be the equivelant of 1" thick styrofoam I believe. If you have not installed exterior insulation then you should stud the outside walls with 2 x 4 walls placing insulation in those studs.

Your floor when poured if it met the IRC rules required a continuous sealed sheat of plastic layed between the concrete floor and the dirt. If this was not done then place the bisquine under the padding of the carpet. If this plastic sheat was installed under the concrete as the rules require then no do not install a second sheat of plastic or you would be trapping moisture between those two sheet of vapor barrier being the plastic sheets.

Hope this helps

Wg

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the quick response, WG.
1. I only have two slots open on the service panel. I planned to use one slot w/ a double 20 Amp Circuit. Having the receptacles (12) in one and the lights (8) on the other. Is this OK?? I already have lights in the basement and using that circuit for half of the basement. So the other half of the basement will be on the new circuits.

2. Live in New Jersey. I used 2 for heating degree day adjustment and calculated the LF for the three rooms. How do you connect the baseboard w/ thermostat to the service panel. I should follow the same connection as in one of your Self-Help Forums Archives.

3. No insulation is installed on the outside of the basement walls. Do I still need the ouside insulation if I insulate the inside walls with R-19?? If yes, then after I install exterior insulation, how can I cover it so it is aesthetically pleasing??
With the concrete floor, I noticed inside the french drain that there is clear plastic and pebbles underneath the concrete floor. Is this what you are talking about??? If yes, then installing the Berber carpet w/ 6 Lb. pad would be OK, Right??.

Thanks.

[Wgoodrich]

Chances are you should be able to run the lights and receptacles on one circuit. There may be a heavy load by your refrigerator such as kitchen style appliances be careful of large loads there. The key is to keep the circuit for your entertainment system and computer to be on the circuit separate from your refrigerator of fluorescent lighting. These type loads can cause interference in your computer or entertainment center. Try reading on our interference subject of this forum that may protect you from future interference you may experience.

If you are short on breakers now you will be more short on breaker spaces with the heat. You may need to perform a demand load calculation to see if you will be overloading this main service panel. Try performing your own demand load calc to see what minimum service size is needed including your new loads in the basement and the electric baseboard heat using the format below.

http://www.homewiringandmore.com/homewiringusa/2002/definitions/demandcalc02/DwlingDmdCalc02.html

If your demand load calc says your service size meets minimum including the new loads and new heating then you may want to consider adding a sub panel so you have enough breaker spaces now and in the future. If your demand load answer is saying your main service will be inadequate then you will need to consider installing a service upgrade to a larger servcice sized to meet your current demand load and then adding in for future loads you may plan in the future.

The baseboard heat allows at 250 watts per foot for you to carry at 80% load factor a total of 15 feet per 20 amp 240 volt double breaker circuit on 12/2wGrnd cable. Run from that breaker connecting that bare wire to the grounding bar. Connect the black and white wire of that cable to the two lugs of a 20 amp double pole 240 volt breaker. Run that cable to a double pole thermostat mounted on the wall. Run both of the two hot wires through the thermostats then run a 12/2wGrnd to the first heater from that thermostat. Then run from that first heater to the second heater and on if need be until you approach all the heaters in that room or until your hit the maximum of 15 feet of heat.

If you install R19 inside the outside basement walls in studs then outside insulation is not required. The insulation on the inside R19 is fine.

Yes this plastic is what you need to have installed below the concrete. Now that you know that is there then install your carpet pad and carpet normally. Do not install a second plastic sheet or you would be trapping moisture between the two plastic sheets this would not be a good thing.

HOpe this helps

Wg

[quique00]

I had sent you this yesterday, guess it did not go thru.
Thanks for Items 2 & 3, WG.
1. I agree with you about the fridge. So I did a lil' research on the existing lights and receptacles in the basement. This is what I found: The exisitng lights (6) in the basement and Smoke Alarms (7) are with the Smoke Alarm Circuit (15 Amp). The receptacles (2) in the basement, one servicing the Sump Pump are with the Garage Circuit (15 Amp). The Garage has two (2) lights and two receptacles (one GFI). The fridge today is in the Garage connected to the GFI receptacle.
WG, can I do the following:
Get power from the existing receptacle to the new receptacle for the fridge in the basement.
Also add three (3) lights to the existing Smoke Alarm Circuit.
Leaving the new circuit for the computer, entertainment system and lights only.
Thanks.

[Wgoodrich]

Only concern I see is your refrigerator being on a GFI circuit. Code allows in a basement any large appliance to be nonGFI protected. Refrigerators are hermetic motors. Often times hermetic motors will cause a GFI to trip. If you have no concern of that then you may do as you suggested meeting Code as suggested.

Good Luck

Wg

[quique00]

WG Thanks for the advice.
Two more questions.
Should I have a GFI on the new circuit where the entertainment center and computer are going to be?? According to the previous reply the answer is NO.
Adding the lights on the existing Smoke alarm circuit is OK??
Thanks,
Enrique

[Wgoodrich]

Only receptacles installed behind large appliances that are not readily moved is exempted from GFI protection. If your entertainment system will have receptacles that are readily accessible and are in a basement they are required to be GFI protected if they are 120 volt 15 or 20 amp rated. GFI will not cause problems with electronics if electronics are normal and in good operating condition.

Adding lighting to a smoke detector system that is not an electronic fire alarm system is fine and allowed by the NEC.

Hope this helps

Wg

[quique00]

WG,
Today the rough electrical inspection happened.
The only thing that the inspector did not want is that I had on a switch a 12/2 Romex Wire coming in and a 14/2 Romex Wire going to the lights.
I thought this was acceptable??
Thanks.

[Wgoodrich]

Technically it would not be a violation. However the breaker would have to be sized not to exceed ampacity rating of the smallest wire on the circiut.

If you had a 12/2 coming from the panel and a 14/2 somewhere in the circuit and a 20 amp breaker then it would be a violation.

Many inspectors knowing the skill level of those they are inspecting will react to a 14/2 on a 12/2 branch circuit. This is often due to concern that the electrician is not skilled enough to know later to check for the smallest wire on a circuit. This often results in a 20 amp breaker on a 14 awg 15 amp wire in that circuit. This is what your inspector is trying to avoid.

Hope this helps

Wg

[quique00]

WG Thanks for the explanation. Today the rough framing inspection happened and was very interesting. The inspector instructed me to install two louvers (one on top and one below the wall) in the office for ventilation throughout the rooms. He was concerned about Carbon Monoxide coming from the utility room. The utility room will have a full louvered Door. So for every 1000 BTU, I have to have 1 square inch of opening between the two rooms. Just giving you an update on the inspection.
The next inspection is the insulation for Friday. Why do I need the insulation to be inspected??
Thanks,
Enrique

[Wgoodrich]

The venting your inspector is calling for to my knowledge is his personal concerns maybe about a room or two becoming bedrooms. The IRC does not require what you discribe except to allow combustion air into the room where the gas appliances are and gas appliances are not allowed adjascent to a bedroom or bathroom.

Insulation has as many rules of installation as any other part of building. Gets quite involved. A house too sealed can be dangerous without the required air exchange. A house not insulated enough would be a disadvantage to anyone buying the house. The IRC addresses both concerns. Then you have rules for requried vapor barriers and areas forbidden to have vapor barriers. Then you have draft stopping rules and fire stopping rules all in the IRC and may also have local rules that may apply. Then many local jurisdictions have complete energy Code books written just for that jurisdiction.

Having fun yet ?
Good Luck

Wg

[quique00]

I'm having a blast!! WG
Thanks for the information. I expected to learn a lot from this project and my expectations are correct so far. I will be installing R-19 around the perimeter walls. But have a few questions for the wall between the office and the entertainment room: Does a wall between two rooms need to be insulated??
If yes, then what is the lowest R-value and type needed??
If not, then what can I put as a sound barrier between the studs??
Thanks,
Enrique

[Wgoodrich]

The intent of the Code is to install an energy blanket all the way around the house including the crawl space or basement one way or other. This design of an insulation blanket should be looked at as a total wrap around sealing the outside with the inside without creating any double vapor barriers.

Insulation is not requried on inside walls not exposed to the outside. However insulation is allowed to be installed on inside walls for sound resistance. Just do not install any vapor barrier on an inside wall. Normal friction bat insulation cut to fit the stud spaces using the friction of the insulation to hold it is place until drywall is usually used on inside walls.

Before you close the walls think of what you missed. Vacuum, phone, puter, intercom, surround sound, and anything else that may be inexpensive to install now before you insulate and drywall. Just take a second to wind yourself down and think it over while you walk the house. Look for anything you missed concerning anything before you close those walls.

Hope this helps

Wg