Laundry to main bath

[dkooda]

Hi,

I'm moving my laundry to my upstairs bath and am wondering about a few things. It's a full bath (twin sinks, bath tub w/shower and toilet). Our plan is to build a closet to house the washer and dryer.

Existing wiring. The room has two recepticles protected by a GFI. The overhead lights and vent are NOT protected. Should they be? Also protected by this GFI are outside outlets on the front and back of the house. Is that OK? When the previous owner finished one one of the levels, he connected an inside outlet to the outside recepticle, making it also protected by the GFI. I have a feeling this is a 15 amp circuit, but I haven't confirmed that yet. Seems like I have some work to do in this area.

The dryer is electric, so I'll need to extend the wire it's using now. It's currently in the same room as the main panel, so there's about 10 feet of 10/2 (or 10/3, can't remember) to the outlet. Can I just put a box on the ceiling in that room to splice the wires together or do I need to run a single wire from the panel all the way to the new location?

The washer will require a recepticle as well. Can I tap into existing circuit in the bathroom? I could do it on either side of the GFI - which is right? Or does this need to be on it's own circuit? It seems like I wouldn't want the washer to be on a GFI.

In terms of venting the dryer, I can drop it through the floor and run though a space between the floors for about 15 feet to an outside wall. Any problems doing that?

Are there any special requirements for venting the 'closet' that will house the washer and dryer? There won't be a sink in the closet, only the existing bath sinks will remain.

Any other things I should be concerned about? When I started thinking about this project, it seemed like there were a lot of things to consider. Now that I've written them down, it doesn't seem so bad. My primary concern is with the electrical setup. I need to make sure it's right.

Oh, I forgot about the plumbing aspect. I can easily run supply lines to the washer. The house has mostly 3/4" copper which is stepped down to 1/2" before it goes to any location. Why did they do that? Can I tap into a 1/2" or should I run the larger pipe all the way? What about the drain for the washer? There are drain pipes for the sinks, shower and toilet that I can get access to. I have no idea if I need to add venting to the existing drains or if I can just add a Y connector to one of the sink or shower drain pipes. Anyone have ideas about this?

Thanks in advance for your help!

Dan K

[Wgoodrich]

YOU SAID;
Existing wiring. The room has two recepticles protected by a GFI. The overhead lights and vent are NOT protected. Should they be? Also protected by this GFI are outside outlets on the front and back of the house. Is that OK? When the previous owner finished one one of the levels, he connected an inside outlet to the outside recepticle, making it also protected by the GFI. I have a feeling this is a 15 amp circuit, but I haven't confirmed that yet. Seems like I have some work to do in this area.

REPLY;
In the 70s it was normal to wire bathrooms and outside and garages and any other desired receptacle to be GFI protected all on one branch circuit. As the Code evolved since then the NEC requires a bathroom to be wires as a 20 amp branch circuit GFI protected bathroom receptacle circuit for all receptacles in all bathrooms but no other outlets including no lighting. Or You may run one 20 amp 120 volt branch circuit dedicated to one bathroom wiring everything in that bathroom on that one circuit but using this option you must not leave that bathroom with that dedicated bathroom circuit. This option allows lighting and fan to be on same dedicated bathroom circuit.

YOU SAID;
The dryer is electric, so I'll need to extend the wire it's using now. It's currently in the same room as the main panel, so there's about 10 feet of 10/2 (or 10/3, can't remember) to the outlet. Can I just put a box on the ceiling in that room to splice the wires together or do I need to run a single wire from the panel all the way to the new location?

REPLY;

The NEC says yes you may juntion and extend as you discribed. However if it were me I would run a new circuit from the panel and discard the old 10 feet of wire. You are not losing much compared to the added secure feeling of no junction to give you trouble later.

YOU SAID;
The washer will require a recepticle as well. Can I tap into existing circuit in the bathroom? I could do it on either side of the GFI - which is right? Or does this need to be on it's own circuit? It seems like I wouldn't want the washer to be on a GFI.

REPLY;
Bathroom receptacle circuit must be dedicated today. No you must not tap from that bathroom with new wiring. Also this would be a new installation and you must meet current rules. NEC now requires that laundry to be served with a 20 amp 12 awg branch circuit dedicated as laundry receptacle circuit. No lighting, fastened in place appliances and nothing in any other room allowed on that dedicated laundry receptacle circuit.

YOU SAID;
In terms of venting the dryer, I can drop it through the floor and run though a space between the floors for about 15 feet to an outside wall. Any problems doing that?

REPLY;
Make sure that vent is metal and flat with no dips that can build up lint to plug the vent pipe. Otherwise you are fine.

YOU SAID;
Are there any special requirements for venting the 'closet' that will house the washer and dryer? There won't be a sink in the closet, only the existing bath sinks will remain.

REPLY;
If the dryer or any other fuel combustion equipment is in that closet then you must have combustion air venting to meet minimum. If electric dryer and no combustion fuel equipment then no venting other than dryer output vent required.

YOU SAID;
Any other things I should be concerned about? When I started thinking about this project, it seemed like there were a lot of things to consider. Now that I've written them down, it doesn't seem so bad. My primary concern is with the electrical setup. I need to make sure it's right.

REPLY;
2" washer drain with trap best bet. 1 1/2" minimum size required.

Good Luck

Wg

Oh, I forgot about the plumbing aspect. I can easily run supply lines to the washer. The house has mostly 3/4" copper which is stepped down to 1/2" before it goes to any location. Why did they do that? Can I tap into a 1/2" or should I run the larger pipe all the way? What about the drain for the washer? There are drain pipes for the sinks, shower and toilet that I can get access to. I have no idea if I need to add venting to the existing drains or if I can just add a Y connector to one of the sink or shower drain pipes. Anyone have ideas about this?

[dkooda]

Original question;
Existing wiring. The room has two recepticles protected by a GFI. The overhead lights and vent are NOT protected. Should they be? Also protected by this GFI are outside outlets on the front and back of the house. Is that OK? When the previous owner finished one one of the levels, he connected an inside outlet to the outside recepticle, making it also protected by the GFI. I have a feeling this is a 15 amp circuit, but I haven't confirmed that yet. Seems like I have some work to do in this area.

YOUR REPLY;
In the 70s it was normal to wire bathrooms and outside and garages and any other desired receptacle to be GFI protected all on one branch circuit. As the Code evolved since then the NEC requires a bathroom to be wires as a 20 amp branch circuit GFI protected bathroom receptacle circuit for all receptacles in all bathrooms but no other outlets including no lighting. Or You may run one 20 amp 120 volt branch circuit dedicated to one bathroom wiring everything in that bathroom on that one circuit but using this option you must not leave that bathroom with that dedicated bathroom circuit. This option allows lighting and fan to be on same dedicated bathroom circuit.

FOLLOW UP;
Until now, I was pretty sure the builder had done the upstairs wiring. Now I have to think the previous owner did it. The house was built in 1996, so extending the bathroom circuit beyond the bathroom to the outside recepticles goes against the NEC. I'm not sure how easy it would be to fix, but it seems like I should try.

I think I understand what you're saying about the NEC requirements for bathrooms. I'm still not clear if the lights and vent in the bathroom should be GFI protected. I can't use my house as an example of the right way because in one bathroom everything is on the GFI and in the other bath nothing but the recepticles is protected. Is there an easy answer here?

In terms of wiring the laundry "room", which is actually a closet, it sounds like I need to wire it just like it was in it's own room. I'll run a dedicated circuit for the washer. If we decide to put a light in there, can I branch off that same circuit?

On the dryer vent -- when it reaches the outside wall, it'll need to be pretty close to another vent. The other vent is an exhaust vent for the downstair bathroom. Is there a regulation about how close exhaust vents can be together?

Thanks for your help.

Dan K

[Wgoodrich]

Normally if an older wiring system met code at time of installation then forever it be controlled by that older code version unless you change the integrity of that original wiring or find the wiring to be in an unsafe condition. If wiring is in safe condition then your original wiring should be fine as existing.

If you wish to update to current code you may wire by two choices.

Single dedicated 12 awg 20 amp branch circuit to serve all bathroom receptacles in all bathrooms but nothing not even lighting allowed on that dedicated bathroom receptacle circuit serving all bathroom receptacles. Your lighting and vent fan would have to come from a general lighting circuit such as tapped off bedroom circuit or new circuit from panel. That is now choice one, current code requirements.

Choice two. Install a 12 awg 20 amp branch circuit to one bathroom and install all lighting, receptacles or anything else inside that certain bathroom on that one dedicated bathroom branch circuit but you are not allowed to leave that bathroom with that branch circuit. That is choice two current code requirements.

In the older code that your house was wired probably in the 70s it was normal to wire all outside, bathroom, basement, garage receptacles that were required to be GFI protected including lighting and fans on one 15 or 20 amp branch circuit. This was allowed by the NEC in the 70s version of the NEC.

Today bathroom lights and exhaust fans are not requried but may be allowed to be GFI protected. One exception is if bathroom fan is inside the area above the shower outline then this fan must be approved to be installed in that shower outline area then it must be GFI protected.

From what you are saying you were wired by the old code and it would be allowed to have lights, fan, receptacle all on one branch circuit even including some receptacles in that bedroom.

However if you change the integrity of that existing wiring then you have to go to option 1 or option 2 of the NEC as discribed above.

Lights and fans may be but are not required to be GFI protected. All depends on if you are declaring existing untouched as originally wired, or you want to wire as the NEC now feels you need to be wired.

Lights are not allowed on the laundry receptacle circuit nor is anything but laundry receptacles allowed on that laundry branch circuit 12 awg 20 amp rated per todays NEC rules.

There is no clearance requirements per Code concerning exhaust fan and dryer vent outlet locations.

Hope this helps

Wg