Floor Rising along beam

[imported_gbeichho]

I have noticed that my tiled floor is peaking along the line of the centre beam under the cottage. I'm pretty sure it's because the floor joists are bowing due to the load bearing wall being non-centred on the beam. (see diagram). Is there a good way to solve this problem?

I assume that I would have to either strengthen the joists or place a beam under the load bearing wall. But would placing a beam in the middle of a floor joist eliminate the bowing because I didn't think you were supposed to have joist overhang?

Thanks,

George

http://members.rogers.com/kge/FloorPlan.bmp

[Wgoodrich]

I suspect that if your center beam is rising then the two outside beams are sinking. Have you looked under the cabin to see? Are you setting on solid rock where you have a bolder or large rock working out of the ground forcing this beam to be higher?

A picture of the outside or under floor area may tell us some more to help.

Curious

Wg

[imported_pabs]

I'm not a builder but by looking at your diagram you can see
that the load bearing wall is acting like a catilever on the floor joist below since the main beam is not directly below it.

that wall is trying to make the floor joist bow which could make the ends come up.
coulnd't this be an issue if the floor joist are not dimensionally big enough to carry that kind of load?
or if the floor joist don't extend far enough past the middle beam.
(I'm guessing the floor joist come to an end at the middle "main beam".


couldn't you dimply add supports underneath where the load bearing wall is with a beam and jack post system?



Pabs

[Anonymous]

I assumed it was a cantilever to, and I figure putting a beam under the wall to support the point load will certainly reduce the bowing.

But I also remember reading that floor joists shouldn't go past the beam that supports them. I'm assuming there must be some reason for this. I've never seen a setup where you have a beam supporting a floor joist in the middle, but I'm not a builder either.

I'm going to take some photos underneath this weekend to see if the middle beam is rising due to rocks or not.

George

[Wgoodrich]

The arrow where the floor is rising is dead on the support beam that should have a girder and piers suppoting that beam in the crawl space.

If the rising is dead on the beam then the piers are pushing the beam up.

I would agree that if the floor joists were rising in the middle of the right side of that beam in the middle of that right span betwen the beam and the right side supporting wall. However the rising dead on the beam is saying that the load above is not creating the rise rather something is sinking in the original foot print or there is a bolder under the middle piers and girder that is rising from underground causing this beam to rise.

The cantelever I think your speaking of is the load bearing wall to the left off center of that beam support. This is allowed to be off set if the floor joists are properly sized and there is a double floor joist where that off set support wall is resting. If this double floor joist is not there under that offset supporting wall or if the floor joists are improperly sized for the span and living load then the dead load can make the left side floor press down making it appear that the beam is rising. If this is the case then I agree a supporting set of piers and girder installed under that off set support wall after it is jacked back up should solve the problem.

Pictures underneath showing what is supporting the offset support wall would help center on the problem. Also check for bowing of that set of floor joists under that support wall and if that floor joist under that off set bearing wall is a double floor joist.

Curious

Wg

[imported_gbeichho]

OK, I have more information and pictures... Doesn't look too good, but hopefully all rectifiable.

Here are some facts...
- Floor joists are 2x6
- Beams are 3 2x6 nailed together
- Floor joists are not nailed together at the overlap (8')
- Floor joists are definately scissoring where the floor is rising
- The load bearing wall header posts (kitchen entrance) where the floor is the worst are definately sunk
- Middle beams are sitting on blocks and patio stones on dirt
- Good side is on a cement foundation with a rising wall --> at least for more than half of the length, I didn't got to the other side yet.

Here is what I think I need to do:

1) Place a beam under the load bearing wall
2) Dig up on outside the piers holding the lowered outside wall to determine why it is lower --> is it sinking?
3) Raise the outside wall that is lower than the rest (perhaps put proper cemented footings)
4) Put proper Blocking between the floor joists underneath???
5) Cut the Joist overlap or nail them together???

Questions:???
I assume I should do all this before putting in a ceiling so that all the shifting is done first???
Will raising the lowered side affect my roof? (it looks like the roof is mostly supported by the other two walls, not the lowered wall)

Updated Diagram
http://www.eichholzer.net/webpostings/FloorPlan2.bmp

Good Wall and Foundation (right side)
http://www.eichholzer.net/webpostings/GoodSide8x6.jpg

Center Beam on Left, a look down the length
http://www.eichholzer.net/webpostings/CentreBeamOnLeft8x6.jpg

Partial Beam --> note the patio stones on dirt -- It only runs length of kitchen (heavy appliances I'm guessing)
http://www.eichholzer.net/webpostings/PartialBeam8x6.jpg

Overlapped Joists
http://www.eichholzer.net/webpostings/OverlappedJoists8x6.jpg

Joist Closeup -- note the scissoring...
http://www.eichholzer.net/webpostings/JoistsCloseup8x6.jpg

More Scissoring Joists
http://www.eichholzer.net/webpostings/ScissoringJoists8x6.jpg

Weird Mould or something (both Brown and White) -- note patio stones again...
http://www.eichholzer.net/webpostings/WhiteAndBrownStuff8x6.jpg

Zoom Shot of Pier from Lowered Side Wall, looks like a broken shim, or just a big piece of wood placed sideways -- can't tell
http://www.eichholzer.net/webpostings/PierOfSinkingSide8x6.jpg

[Wgoodrich]

Take a level and see from center of floor to outside walls both way doesn't show the the flow is sinking on the outside wall depicted in the last picture in your post. I looks like the one outside wall has been rebuilt. Then the patio stones and wedges have been installed after jacking up that part of the floor then the old section of footing and foundation I am suspecting has parts missing and excess weight has pointed to small sections of this older outside footing and foundation.

I am suspecting that you will need to jack up the house and replace the footing and foundation on the old outside footing and foundation same as the opposite side of the house was done.

Looks like someone was working on leveling the house and rebuilding a strong foot print and it never got done. Thus sinking of the older part of partial outside footing and foundation.

It is hard to see total picture but that is what I am putting together from the pictures you have provided.

Hope this helps some with what we could see using your pictures as a put together puzzle trying to recreate what is happening.

I suspect the outside footing is sinking. The patio blocks under that part of the beam is holding in place elevation wise causing a rise in the floor where you are seeing it.

Just best I can come up with, hope it helps with some ideas

Wg

[imported_gbeichho]

Yes, the floor definately slopes from the centre to the older wall (left side in diagram). The good looking wall side is quite level.

I'm going to have to dig a trench on the outside and check out the old foundation (too shallow underneath to crawl over...)

Now, a few quick questions about the repair process (I'll be checking with a contractor but I want to get some knowledge first).

1) Do I have to pour a whole foundation, or can I just use piers on the far side?
2) How deep do we have to dig? (it's very rocky... and I can't get a cat in there without driving over septic bed.
3) Will jacking up that side, cause any undue stress on the rest of the cottage. There are only 2 small windows on that side, and you can see from the other roof thread that the trusses holding up the roof don't even sit on that wall...
4) Should I do anything about the overlapping joists, nail them together, or just leave them as is.
5) I assume I should properly support the load bearing wall with proper beam and piers underneath?
6) What is the maximum length between support beams with 2x6 joists?

Thanks... (I'll post pictures when I dig up that wall...)

[Wgoodrich]

YOU SAID;
Yes, the floor definately slopes from the centre to the older wall (left side in diagram). The good looking wall side is quite level.

REPLY;
This I suspected then after the other post offered his thoughts got to questioning my suspision. I am glad you discovered the cause of your concerns. Seems the floor is not rising but rather the outside foundation is sinking. Is this what you have discovered or am I misunderstanding what you said?

YOU SAID;
I'm going to have to dig a trench on the outside and check out the old foundation (too shallow underneath to crawl over...)

REPLY;
Do not dig until you know what you need. The house can still be supported for a time if you remove about a foot and a half of hte old foundation, not footing. This will let you stick you head in and see what is happening to confirm this is what you need. This is a single story home and should easily be able to be jacked up to proper level. If it were me I would connect a 2x12 to the floor joists in the multiple places you remove the old foundation, not footing. Then extend that jack board outside the house where you can get a jack under that jack board. Then repeat this in about 4 places evenly from corner to corner of the house evenly along the line of the house you are trying to level.

Then slowly use jacks to jack up the house floor joist to a level about 3" above level at this time doing this jacking evenly on each jack board you installed. YOu may use short boards to drill a couple of holes in the floor joist bolting this temporary drop cripple board down to also drill and bolt to your jack boards connecting the original floor joist to the temporary jack boards. Then once you have the house jacked up on that low side to a level about 3" too high use what you call patio stones to lay on the ground and blocks to stack up to about 1" below the jack boards and let you jacks down so the jack boards now support the house on those patio stones and stacked blocks.

Once that is done you can start digging your footer properly and installing your foundation properly on that side. Don't forget to install anchor bolts to bolt the house to the new foundation as required.

YOU SAID;
Now, a few quick questions about the repair process (I'll be checking with a contractor but I want to get some knowledge first).

1) Do I have to pour a whole foundation, or can I just use piers on the far side?

ANSWER;
The entire side of that house once jacked up and supported safely on the temporary jack boards including around each corner of hte house foundation and footing should have the old foundation and footing removed. Then redig the footing below frost level and at least 12" deep making sure you are on a solid ground setting at the bottom of that footing trench. Then pour a new footing the entire length of that side of the house at least 6" deep of concrete. Width of footing depends on soil consistency. If in doubt make the footing 18" wide the entire length of the footing. Do not short cut on that footing. Without the footing properly installed you are wasting your time. Then lay your foundation block to a level 2" below the house where the floor joists will lay level once setting on that foundation wall. Then drill anchor bolt holes in your sill plate replacing that sill plate if deteriated. Use a flat washer and nut to bolt the sill plate to the foundation.

YOU SAID;
2) How deep do we have to dig? (it's very rocky... and I can't get a cat in there without driving over septic bed.

REPLY;
The footing will need to be dug by hand. If you hit a large bolder or table rock that is substantial then you may stop at that large rock and use it as your footing support with a thin layer of sand between the rock and poured footer, pouring directly over the large rock now being a part of that footer. The footer must be dug to below frost line in your area in depth but at least 12" deep below undisturbed dirt. Do not short cut with the footer, that is your foot print, you yourself can not stand if you have not foot to stand on, remember that footer makes the house, no proper foot print no worth to the house !

YOU SAID;
3) Will jacking up that side, cause any undue stress on the rest of the cottage. There are only 2 small windows on that side, and you can see from the other roof thread that the trusses holding up the roof don't even sit on that wall...

REPLY;
Jacking up the house can cause some damage. Often times when things become squared up wall sheathing installed while the house was unlevel will buckle needing some attention. If plaster and lathe cracks may appear needing patched, Window should show no problem. Doors may need to be adjusted due to out of line. Damage control should be minor compared to value increase of solid home on solid footing.

YOU SAID;
4) Should I do anything about the overlapping joists, nail them together, or just leave them as is.

REPLY;
If the joists are supported at both ends and all this is can be a joist too long and just hanging over not supporting anything, then leave them they are not hurting a thing.

YOU SAID;
5) I assume I should properly support the load bearing wall with proper beam and piers underneath?

REPLY;
Yes same depth of footing must be at least 12" deep below undisturbed dirt.

YOU SAID;
6) What is the maximum length between support beams with 2x6 joists?

16 inch repetitive lumber installation below;

REPLY;
2x6 floor joist supporting bedroom = 10 foot 3 inches
2x6 floor joist supproting living room type area = 9 foot 4 inches
2x6 ceiling joist without storage in attic = 16 feet 11 inches
2x6 ceiling joist with limited storage in attic = 12 feet 10 inches
2x6 rafters roofing only 20 pound snow load = 14 feet 4 inches
2x6 rafters roofing & ceiling 20 pound snow load = 13 feet 5 inches
2x6 rafters roofing only 30 pound snow load = 11 feet 11 inches
2x6 rafters roofing & ceiling 30 pound snow load = 9 feet 9 inches

Hope this helps

Wg

[imported_gbeichho]

REPLY;
This I suspected then after the other post offered his thoughts got to questioning my suspision. I am glad you discovered the cause of your concerns. Seems the floor is not rising but rather the outside foundation is sinking. Is this what you have discovered or am I misunderstanding what you said?


Yes, it appears that the foundation is sinking on the one side. The other side appears quite level.


Do not dig until you know what you need. The house can still be supported for a time if you remove about a foot and a half of hte old foundation, not footing. This will let you stick you head in and see what is happening to confirm this is what you need. This is a single story home and should easily be able to be jacked up to proper level.

Yes, I shouldn't have said trench... I will dig a little hole so I can stick my head under to take a look. I'm pretty sure there is no foundation footer or wall on that side. From underneath it looked like pillars (cinder block) holding up a beam running the length of the cottage (supporting the perpendicular joists). I'm guessing I'll have to examine the two corners and 2 other posts.

Then pour a new footing the entire length of that side of the house at least 6" deep of concrete.

I looked up my digging depth for Ontario, and it's 4 feet... yikes. This will mean I need to dig a 30 ft x 4ft x 18" trench by hand. Since it appears (I will verify this coming weekend) that the joists are sitting on a beam supported at around 4 points, can't I just dig out a 4' deep hole around those points and put in a proper footing and pillar?

This would signficantly reduce my costs (and work effort). I'm estimating that a new foundation will cost in the order of 10K CAD, while the pillars might cost a fraction of that since I can probably dig the four or five pillars by hand.

2x6 floor joist supporting bedroom = 10 foot 3 inches
2x6 floor joist supproting living room type area = 9 foot 4 inches


Good, if I put a beam under the load bearing wall, I will have a maximum joist length of 8'. Is this sufficient for supporting a kitchen with a fridge and stove?

What kind of wood would I need to use to support the floor joists under the load bearing wall. Right now the beams are made of 3, 2X6 nailed together. How frequent do I need to make the support pillers for this?

I am now very concerned about the cost...

The worst part about all this is that this cottage has additions on both sides and I'm pretty sure that one of them is sinking too, but I don't care as much about them, because they're just bedrooms w/ carpet.

I also think the side with the proper foundation wall doesn't have a true foundation for the full length... I'll do a bit of digging to check it out this weekend.

[Wgoodrich]

If a 30 pound snow load on the roof and a building not exceeding 20 feet in width then the following size and number of 2" lumber used as girders supporting the flooring on the piers may serve as a girder a maximum distance listed below to support a single floor and roof only;

2-2x12= 9 feet 9 inches
3-2x12= 12 feet 2 inches
4-2x12= 14 feet 1 inches

The outside perimeter footing and foundation should be a curtain wall the entire length.

You made a point of concern. The above is doing the entire house correctly by meeting the IRC rules. However the new foundation on the opposite side will affect what you should do. If your new foundation on the opposite side being existing is sitting on the ground without a proper footer and you install a proper footer on the old side then your ground freezes one side of the house will heave higher due to frozen ground but the deeper footer side would not heave with it. If this is the case and your new existing footer on one side of the house is without a proper footer then you should match it on teh side you are repairing. If your new existing foundation has a shollow footer but not your required depth for your area again you should match it on the new side you are repairing. This way all will work more in unisome with each other rather than constantly causing damage to your structure by one side heaving and one not heaving due to frozen ground and frost protected ground. Match the new with the new existing.

I just jacked up one of my rentals and dug the type footing you are looking at 30" deep and two of us dug it in a week of evening and week end digging by hand. Not as bad as it seems. Jacking up and installing the proper footer and foundation cost me about 500 dollars doing it my self. Not really that much material but plenty of labor. Take your time shore up the side to avoid rain causing cave in of already dug footer and you can do it yourself if you pace yourself. If I can do it then you can do it.

Hope this helps

Wg

[imported_gbeichho]

Thank you... I don't know how good a digger you are! :D

I'm thinking that I'll be digging around both the good and bad sides of the cottage to see what is there. I'll also get a good idea of the rockiness.

From your data it looks like I'll have to dig 4 piers under the cottage to properly support the load bearing wall. Digging with 2 ft headroom will not be fun!

I assume most of your $500.00 cost was for the cement being trucked in?

I'll take pictures this weekend and post them...

[Wgoodrich]

I supsect that if you raise the floor to proper condition being level on the point where the foundation is sinking then replace your footing and foundation then set the floor back properly and level the peaking tile should disappear naturally.

Load bearing wall 9" off center of girder and piers is a bit more than normally allowed but should be fine. This tile problem should correct itself once you get your floor level and footing and foundation set properly if I am picturing where the wall line and tile separtion location is.

HOpe this helps

Wg

[imeduc]

You do have a lot going on here and I would say the beam is not in the right place.Also the footing can be bad. BUT BUT first the joist tails are to long. You should have only 6" no more stick over the beam where the joist lap. Thats the way I learned 8) ED

[Wgoodrich]

Imeduc, curious. The floor joists are supported by the girder or beam. The tails support nothing if the pass beyond the girdier or beam and really do no good. However I am curious where you believe they can do harm if extending along the second joist supporting nothing. The IRC requires a minimum that joist must be in length over the girder or joist but to my knowledge the IRC is mute concerning excess length sticking out beyond the supporting girder or beam.

Do you know of a rule or safety concern about allowing that joist to be longer than required?

By the way I can not agree with you more that he has a lot going on here. Biggest thing I can find it the most important part of a house and that is the foot print [aka footer on solid ground]. His foot print had a lot to be desired in the type soil he has. This is to me the cause of almost all his problem. No solid foot print leaves little value to a home. His footer sinking on the one side while the other side has been redone is not a good thing and I suspect most of the cure that needs done is to attack that sinking footer.

The IRC allows your bearing wall to be off set of a supporting pier not to exceed the width of the spanning lumber. He quoted 9" offset and I suspect he has an 8" joist at least. This would say the offset from the supporting beam or girder probably is not causing his floor rising. While minimum is not what all like to do minimum is a proven method suggesting this offset bearing wall not a focus point of his problem but rather the sinking footing is.

I am curious if you have a rule of statistic that states the extra long floor joist tail over a girder can cause harm. I may learn something on this one.

Curious

Wg

[imported_gbeichho]

First to clarify the data:
- Floor Joists are 2x6
- Main Beams are 3 or 4 (depending on which beam) 2x6.
- Load bearing wall is offset 18" from the nearest support underneath
- Load bearing wall is sunk at least 1 inch in the floor
- Bad side is at least a couple inches lower than good side
- Good side is quite level all the way across (except for bowing floor joist ridges from cantilevered load bearing wall and sinking side)
- Both additions are level (constructed much later than main cottage)

It appears that on the good side, there is a continous wall (see pictures) sitting on a cement pad a couple of inches thick buried about 6" below grade. (see diagram)

Posts supporting non-perimeter main beams are generally sitting on 2x2 cement pads at grade.

On the bad side, there are four posts sitting on cement pads a few inches thick around 6" below grade. (see photos)

It looks like a shim is also broken on the bad side, but that whole side is definately lower by a couple of inches.

I'm a bit concerned that even the good side is a pretty thin layer of concrete, but it seems to keep quite level.

I'm pretty sure I need to dig a proper foundation on the bad side, and probably proper depth piers underneath the cottage. As you can see from photos I will need to dig quite deep to be able to even dig tunnels to the proper places underneath.

I'm guessing that my best bet is to get a machine to dig me a deep trench along the bad side (5 ' deep if possible). Support the structure on that side, then tunnel under to the proper pier locations, dig the piers, pour them, then pour a foundation wall, then lower the cottage down. I'm not sure how to support the cottage during all of this...

The ground was pretty soft to dig, but it had lots of roots and a stupid sewage pipe running almost the full length (I'll probably just take it out and replace it after... If I dig out a lot of dirt underneath, I'll need to make sure I get proper drainage as well.

I am contacting my local inspector tomorrow to see if I can get some old records and maybe a reference for a local engineer...

First a diagram:
http://www.eichholzer.net/webpostings/TopView.bmp

This is the sinking side:
http://www.eichholzer.net/webpostings/CottageBadSide8x6.JPG

Digging out the pier:
http://www.eichholzer.net/webpostings/DiggingOutPier.JPG

IS THIS A GROUNDING ROD???
http://www.eichholzer.net/webpostings/GroundingRodMaybe8x6.JPG

Here is the pillar:
http://www.eichholzer.net/webpostings/BadSidePier.JPG

Closeup
http://www.eichholzer.net/webpostings/BadSidePierCloseup8x6.JPG

From the Side
http://www.eichholzer.net/webpostings/BadSidePierSide8x6.JPG

Cement Pad holding Pier on Bad Side Aprox 1 x 2 feet
http://www.eichholzer.net/webpostings/BadSideCementPad8x6.JPG

Digging around the good side - Spot #1 - Same Depth as bad side, but much bigger cement pad around perimeter...
http://www.eichholzer.net/webpostings/GoodSection1Support8x6.JPG

Digging another spot on good side... same situation as first
http://www.eichholzer.net/webpostings/GoodSection2Support8x6.JPG

Some shots from the Good foundation wall further down, looks a bit less tidy!
http://www.eichholzer.net/webpostings/GoodWallFurtherDown8x6.JPG

Final shot from the addition... looks pretty clean as well, it is level
http://www.eichholzer.net/webpostings/AdditionCrawlspace8x6.JPG

[Wgoodrich]

If you offset beam is that far off the piers then start a new beam under the bearing wall. Dig down to level ground in the crawl but do not go deeper than the repaired footing is already dug on the good side.

Remember if you make a solid footer on the bad side and the footer on the good side heaves then you have problems. Try you best to match depth on bad footer to match depths of good already repaired footer to keep all equal in foot print. Also keep you peirs in the crawl equal in depth of the footers for the peirs.

Do not dig a trench outside not where the footer is. If you disturb that earth then the solid foot print if defeated due to you loosening the adjascent area of the footer to be repaired. Disturb only what has to be done not long areas but only small areas to perform what you need.

You can use a 6 x 6 shoved into the crawl space with the end on a patio stone blocked up to the bottom of the floor joists. Then the other end of that 6x6 sticking out beyond the footer to be repaired sticking through the foundation where you poke a hole. Then use a jack to jack the house up about 4" higher than it is to set normally. Place the jack about a foot in from the end of that 6 x 6. Then place a patio stone and a 4x4 post down under that 6x6. Then let the 6x6 down on the post and patio stone.

Do this in a few locations using a few 6 x 6 post to ensure safety while you remove the old foundaiton and footer. Then dig your footer. Pour it then lay your foundation.

While the house is still jacked up then dig your piers inside matching all new footers to the already repaired footer depth and width to keep all equal and place your beam in place. Build your pier just short of where it needs to be then use shims to shim up for level as the last thing you do just after you set the house down on the new repaired footer and foundation.

Just some suggestions. You see what you have just remember a solid foot print of your house can be ruined by a trench dug near the bottom of that footer yet to be installed.

Good Luck

Wg

I would jack up the bad side

[imported_gbeichho]

Just a few notes... I called the local building inspector and asked if I need a permit to repair the foundation. He replied that unless I was building a basement, I didn't need a permit. He was also not surprised that the cottage was sitting on shallow pads. Apparently that is quite common for cottages in the area.

I will have to dig down a fair bit on the bad side to reach the same level as the other side because the ground is a fair bit higher on the bad side.

Or should I just dig down the same distance from the grade on that side?

Same question for the piers in the crawlspace, some of them are lower (same level as repaired side) then the ground rises abruptly (where they stopped digging out) by about 1.5 ft.

I assume I should pour a full length pad and build a foundation cripple wall on the bad side to match the good side? Right now the bad side only has a couple of piers. The foundation wall is just a metal sheating (I'm going to have to cut that off because it's nailed in underneith my siding).

[Wgoodrich]

Measure depth from finished grade on new footer and match depth from finished grade on replacement footer on outside perimeter footings. Make to two match in depth from surface of dirt not elevation. Try and match as close as possible all details from previously replaced footer and foundation matching this new planned footer and foundation so any heave due to frozen ground is as equal as possible.

Inside the crawl space again find the average depth from finished grade in that crawl space to bottom of footers of piers and again match that so potential of heave is equal between existing piers and new piers.

I would not cut the tin you speak of. This tin installed under your siding is a rain shield to keep water from entering behind or inside your structure where rot will occur due to wet wood conditions of trapped moisture. I would bend up that tin and if need be tack it to the siding above keeping the tin out of your way so that tin may be placed again in its original condition when footer and foundation is completed.

Just my thoughts

Wg

[imported_gbeichho]

So... a local contractor came out and took a look. Funny, he recommended matching the foundation wall on the opposite side with one small difference.

He recommended a blocked wall (same as the other side) with a height of 2 blocks sitting on a similar 6" thick foundation pad. Because the grade is higher on this side, this will mean that I will have to dig down below grade a couple of feet (two blocks high).

I have one outstanding logistics problem... How to jack up and support this side while digging underneith. This side is currently supported in 4 places (2 ends, and 2 piers of a single block on pads).

I can only think of two schemes diagramed below. I have a couple of large 6x6x14 pieces of lumber lying around. Option 2 seems the easiest, but it also makes me nervous, because a catastrophic failure on those supporting beams cause the wall to crash a couple of feet, while blocking the joists directly (option 1) seems like a lot of work, hard to jack up, but a much less catastrophic failure mode.

Any thoughts?

http://www.eichholzer.net/webpostings/SupportPlans16.bmp

[Wgoodrich]

I suggest using about four floor joists long enough to reach about 2" beyond the house and long enough to reach into the crawl space to where you can secure it to the existing floor joists. If you have a beam blocking this sistering of these temp jack joists then place them below the beam blocked and secured to that beam and use flat steel plates to secure inside the crawl to joist above the temp jack joists. Install a temp jack joist about every four joists matching the size of existing joists. Then jack on the outside until high enough on each temp jack joist and place a patio stone as a footing on the existing ground and block securely to the level you need to work then let the jack down on the temporary piers removing the jacks out of the way to work. Be sure to use a jack on each temp jack joist to raise the floor evenly as possible. Be careful and be safe.

Once you are ready to set down the house on the new footing and foundation then again use the jacks to remove the temp piers and let the house down evenly with each jack very slowly to limit damage.

I would look again at your plan. Remember step footings. The two footings do not have to be the same level but must be the same depth as the already repaired footing to retain the same potential on both sides of the house. Dig the new footing the same depth as the repaired footing is dug. Does not have to be same elevation but same depth into undisturbed dirt on the side you are repairing matching the depth below undisturbed dirt on the already repaired side of hte house.

Hope this helps

Wg

http://www.homewiringandmore.com/storage/forumanswerpics/supportplanjackedup2.jpg

[imported_gbeichho]

Only problem with that plan is that the aluminum covers all the down past the level of the floor joists. I have no idea how to remove that type of siding without wrecking it.

You can see from one of the pictures that when I bend up the protecting sheathing around the beam supporting the joists, the siding starts right above the beam and actually covers the top of the sheathing (which is why I have to bend it instead of just removing it).

If I put joists lower than the beam and block them up using metal plates and blocking wood, I will have to dig down to be able to put jacks and patio stone underneith.

[Wgoodrich]

When you bend siding you ruined it for reuse. You will never remove the rinkles of the bent metal.

If you understand how to install J-channel around a window then you just don't know you know how to do what you desire. Take a pair of tin snips and cut the siding on the bottom of the bottom row above where you need it to be clear. Make that cut with tin snips or auto snippers all the way along the length of hte wall till you hit a verticle J-channel or end of wall corner channel. Keep that removed siding for future use. Then do your footing and foundation work. When the work is done install a new starter strip. Then install the siding just like you are starting over making sure it will over lap the existing loose siding just a bit. Then instal a J-channel on the bottom of the existing siding with a rain shield or flat metal behind that new J-channel. Then install a second J-channel facing down. YOu will have a back to back j-channel with the metal flashing with caulking. You have reused the old faded siding matching the existing siding using two new J-channels to make the joining again with the siding real close to where it was when you removed it originally.

Does that give you an idea or two?

Wg

[imported_gbeichho]

Thanks for the ideas... I see something like that can work. Now for the further complication.

It looks like there is a 2x6 border all around the cottage blocking access to the joists. There might even be a particle board sheathing on top of that, I can't tell. I know there is particle board behind the aluminum siding (I can see from the bottom). I also know from looking underneith that the 2x6 runs along the outside of the joists (perpendicular).

I suppose I might be able to cut a holes just where I need to run the extended joists and block it up after. If I run an extended 2x6 joist every 4 joists, it will be 5 places that I have to cut through.

This is getting more complex all the time. What do you think?

[Wgoodrich]

That 2 x 6 is called the band board that the joists are nailed to and is the support board that sits on the treated sill plate. Do not cut that 2 x 6 board nailed to the end of those joists.

Run you jack board below that joist and use metal straps that will saddle from the existing joists above and hang down as far as they need to in order to get to the center of you jack board. Then drill a hole through the metal hangers and the joists and install a bolt through the joist and jack board joining them by the metal hangers saddling both. What I am discribing is much like the hangers you see from the frame of a car to the leaf springs.

Then let the jack board pass under your 2 x 6 band board on the end of the floor joists and just to nail the jack board to the band board to limit any horizontal movement as you jack it up. The only added work doing this is you will have to dig a hole to place the jack under the jack board.

HOpe this helps

Wg

[imported_gbeichho]

Ah, but the joists and band board rest on a beam, so I'd have to run the Jack joists under the beam and then have the hanger run down from the floor joists about 18" (6" for floor joist, 6" for the beam and then 6" for the jack joist).

So the jack joist will be hanging 6" below the floor joists. What size bolts do I use to bolt the hanger to the 2 joists? What type of metal do I use as a hanger to handle the load?

Here is a diagram of what I understand...

http://www.eichholzer.net/webpostings/SupportPlans2.bmp

[Wgoodrich]

Now you get the picture only hang the hangers back closer to the end of the jack board about 1' from the end. The metal plates can be any scrap angle iron or flat plate about 1/4" thick round about.

About any steel plate or angle iron will carry what that jack board can carry in this method of use. Bolts can be 3/8" round about.

Good Luck

Wg

[imported_gbeichho]

I would think that 2 2x6 pieces would also work as a hanger? I will see how easy 1/4 metal plates are to find.

[Wgoodrich]

I would question using that short of a piece of wood. You would be pulling with the grain of the wood inviting that short piece of wood to split.

Just my thoughts

Wg