two shower questions

[marako]

I have a couple of shower questions I'd figure I'd ask here first.... my building department is very hard to get in touch with, so its easier to get the answers first, then leave then simple yes/no questions for them to answer.

First is there a max/min height for a shower head? It seems I've noticed many newer houses where the pipe that feeds the shower head comes out of the wall at 6' or less, then by time you plumb it up, the shower head may only be 5'6" high. I stand 6' tall (just an average guy) and this is really annoying. I'd like my shower head to be a good foot or so above this point.

The second question is: are those single handle anti-scald valves required? I don't like them for several reasons:1) they look bad, 2) they don't give me the control I'd like, and 3) I can't see they are really needed in the day of modern codes. Yes, in the past I've had a shower or two where somebody flushed the toliet and you got a blast of hot water. However unless you got a 50 year old plumbing system, with very lower water pressure, I can't see this every happening. What I'm hoping is that the code has some other option (like proper pipe sizing) or an exception that would allow me to use normal 3 handle shower/tub systems. If not, I think I've seen systems that use 3 handles like a normal setup, but still have a regulator valvle built in some how.

Thanks

[Wgoodrich]

The maximum or minimum height of a shower unit is a personal choice. No minimum or max height is required by the IRC concerning a shower head.

There is no scald rules concerning shower or tub units. There is only an antiscald rule that applies only if a boiler combines hot water plumbing and heat with temps in excess of 180 degrees.

You should be fine


Wg

[marako]

Thanks for the reply.

I'm suprised.... I thought that the anti-scald faucets were a code (maybe they are in NJ?). Thats all I see in new construction, and they make up probably 95% of the displays I've seen. The old 3 handle stuff usally shows up as the " if you have one and need to replace it..."

Well, I'll now put togther a short question for my builing department and see how long they need befor they come back with a yes-no.

Thanks

[DUNBAR PLUMBER]

In Kentucky, Pressure balanced assemblies are required.

The only time they are not required in new construction is when you have a handheld shower device. And this does not mean the type that are added on either.

Those valves protect the average user from scalding, epileptic shock, or just simple convenience. Kids who are prone to convulsions due to medical conditions can be affected by dramatic temperature changes. Same goes for seizures.


As far as showerhead height, I am not well versed since I only perform service work now, and I recall the height being within 6" of the top of shower walls. I use to know that dimension by heart. But the inspectors would make you drop the shower head dimension if it was higher than this.

If your situation is not new construction, put it anywhere you see the need.

This is something they would enforce in a hotel or motel situation, or anywhere where public use has a purpose of serving all shapes and sizes.

Still leaves out tall people such as I though. :(

[Wgoodrich]

Dunbar, what you are saying is true if it is a commercial setting. However these requirements both temp and height are not applied in a dwelling setting per the International Residential Code. Commercial settings require what you are saying though.

Hope this helps

Wg

[DUNBAR PLUMBER]

It must be different from state to state then. Ky inspectors will fail any application of non-pressure balanced valves for showering or bathing in residential applications.

815 KAR 20:120. Water Supply and Distribution

KRS 198B.040(10), 318.130


Section 11. Temperature and Pressure Control Devices for Shower Installations.

A temperature or pressure balanced device to prevent a sudden unanticipated changes in water temperature shall be installed to serve each shower compartment and shower-bath combination.


The only exception to that is when a hand-held shower unit is installed. < That question tripped me up on my Master's test. And you cannot find that in the code book. I was fuming. :mad:


Ever since I have been internet saavy, it has been new to me about IRC and UPC codes, but no where in my code book can I find reference to either of these references or guidelines of codes. I didn't know about these other than a quick mention about 3 years ago that there was a Universal Plumbing Code that was going to go across all the states, and didn't hear anything more about it. I heard that it would follow the way that electrical codes follow.


But, as always, the local inspectors in your area have the final say what can or cannot go.

The reference to guidelines on the shower head height is unwritten, but the inspectors will frown upon high elevations. I guess the short people win this luxury. I have been in trouble before for setting them too high. :o


Here are some average measurements that is usually followed:


For a shower stall:
Faucet = 48" from floor
Showerhead = 72" - 78" from floor

For a bathtub:
Faucet = 12" from bathtub lip
Showerhead = 72" - 78" from floor
Bathtub spout = 4" from bathtub lip


ADA compliant..........I don't know... that takes more brain waves than I have right now.

[Wgoodrich]

Dunbar, Where did you get those rules of law you quoted? Don't recognize any of those reference numbers.

Curious

Wg

[DUNBAR PLUMBER]

Kentucky State Plumbing Code Book


It is a older edition, but the new one reflects the same written codes.


I am not too awful far from your location either, but I do not know codes in Indiana much, very laxed on water heater installs as far as requirments. (Sears)

But, I have heard that a plumbing license in Indiana is a hard one.

When I worked at Belterra (gambling casino) Anti-scald valves were mandatory in your neck of the woods. But, it was commercial too.