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View Full Version : light, fan, gfci from single source wire


jdulberg
January 28th, 2004, 04:29 PM
Is it possible to take power from a single 14/2(?) wire into a switch (to light) 'bridge' the power from that switch to an adjacent switch (to fan) and 'bridge' from the 2nd switch into a gfci on the other side of the room? If this isn't the correct method of doing something like this, is there another method?

Thanks :)

Jason

mdshunk
January 28th, 2004, 05:00 PM
Yes, it is possible, as long as there is a HOT and a NEUTRAL in the first switch where you're getting power. That first switch might just be a "switch loop", and have no neutral. Take things apart and use a tester and find out if there's 120 volts between the black and white wires. No problems otherwise.

I'd caution you that a circuit wired with #14 gauge is only a 15 amp circuit. If this GFI that you're adding is in a bathroom, where you're going to be using a hair dryer and the like, you might start tripping the breaker, depending what's connected on this circuit already. Turn off the breaker that serves the device you plan to scab power out of and see what else goes off. It may or may not prove beneficial to pull in a new circuit from the panel, depending on how much other equipment is on this circuit already.

jdulberg
January 28th, 2004, 05:25 PM
Thanks for your quick response! Here is some more info - It is for a bathroom which is on its own circuit with brand new 14/2 wire. Currently, nothing is wired in so its pretty much a blank slate. I had planned on adding 2 additional plugs on the same circuit before the wire reaches the 1st switch. So there would be 2 plugs (would rarely be used), 4 pot lights, 1 fan, 1 gfci and on the circuit.

Thanks again

Jason

mdshunk
January 28th, 2004, 06:21 PM
I wouldn't put 4 pot lights on that circuit. They are many hundreds of watts each, and would quickly overload the circuit. Besides, growing pot is illegal.

jdulberg
January 29th, 2004, 04:15 PM
I guess 'pot lights" is more a slang term for recessed lighting rather than lights used in a grow operation :) The bulbs are 50 watts each.

Jason

Speedy Petey
January 29th, 2004, 06:04 PM
You can do exactly as you intend as long as the wire is #12, the circuit is 20 amps and the circuit is confined to only this bathroom.

Remember, ALL "receptacles" in a bathroom MUST be GFI protected. If the fan is over the tub or shower it must be protected also.

jdulberg
January 30th, 2004, 05:10 PM
ok, I'm having a brain blockage at the moment about how to get this wired up. Since power is coming in from a single 14/2, I know I have to pigtail the black 3x (switch lights, switch fan, gfci). What happens with the white wire from the power source? Does it get pigtailed to the whites from the lights, fan & gfci? Do I hook the black wires from the fan, light, gfci to where the white would go on the switches? What about the black from the gfci? Am I even on the right track?

Thanks again!

Jason

6pack
January 30th, 2004, 09:13 PM
You have been told your in violation of NEC CODE. The OUTLETS in a BATHROOM must be on a SEPERATE 20AMP CIRCUIT which means #12 WIRE. IF you want you can wire entire bathroom on that circuit and only that bathroom. But then all of the wiring must be #12 gauge wire. All outlets must be GFI protected and IF fan above tub or shower IT also must be GFI protected. I think you do not want to hear this as most likely you have your wiring installed already.Look at top of thread page and click on wiring lights and switches! there are diagrams showing your conn. All green or bare wires must conn in each J box if metal boxes they must also be grounded, this is the MOST IMPORTANT part of the wiring if your not sure what your doing this is a MUST. Post back what you have done with the grounds(aka=grn or bare) or what you intend to do with them and your understanding of 2nd explanation of #12 wire and 20 amp circuit. Just sounds like your not comfortable in wiring and the bathroom is one of the MOST criticle area's where one doesn't want to install faulty wiring. Easy area to electricute some one!!! Post back and see what you understand an we'll go from there! GL

Ohm1
January 30th, 2004, 10:04 PM
It is for a bathroom which is on its own circuit with brand new 14/2 wire.
This is a violation of NEC 210.11 (C)(3), if you are wiring the bath in 14AWG. Your bathroom needs to be wired in 12AWG which is rated for a 20 amp circuit. Also see Table 210.24--for circuit rating.

jdulberg
January 31st, 2004, 09:15 AM
To this point, I only have a wiring diagram. Since nothing is actually wired up, using 12 guage wire instead of 14 as I mentioned previously isn't a big deal, just a matter of altering my diagram. I do understand how wire guages work as I have done numerous stereo installs.

Thank you for your input.

Jason

Ohm1
January 31st, 2004, 10:26 AM
To this point, I only have a wiring diagram. Since nothing is actually wired up, using 12 guage wire instead of 14 as I mentioned previously isn't a big deal, just a matter of altering my diagram. I do understand how wire guages work as I have done numerous stereo installs.

Thank you for your input.

Jason
I see. Overlooked that portion of the topic.

I didn't know stereo wiring required one to have full knowledge of the diversity of conductors. Fill us in! We are all here to learn!

Wgoodrich
January 31st, 2004, 12:09 PM
YOu may install a 12/2wGrnd cable from the panel to the switch box. Then wire nut as many pigtails as you need to deliver the hot to each switch. Then Wire nut the whites together and fold into the back of the box carrying the grounded leg [aka neutral] to each light or receptacle in each cable leaving that switch box. Then wire nut the black of the receptacles to that same black wire nutted hot. Then install your GFI receptacle protection in the first receptacle in that bathroom. You will have a 12/2wGrnd cable coming from that switch box to each light or fan box carrying the grounded, grounding from that switch box to the lights and fans, and switch hot wire from the certain switch you have to control that light.

All you are doing is splitting that one black power wire into a black wire going to the receptacles hot all time and 6" pigtails carrying power to each switch in that switch box.

Hope this helps

Wg

jdulberg
January 31st, 2004, 12:20 PM
All you are doing is splitting that one black power wire into a black wire going to the receptacles hot all time and 6" pigtails carrying power to each switch in that switch box.

Hope this helps

Thank you Wgoodrich for your instructions. This is exactly what I need :)

Jason

jdulberg
January 31st, 2004, 12:27 PM
I see. Overlooked that portion of the topic.

I didn't know stereo wiring required one to have full knowledge of the diversity of conductors. Fill us in! We are all here to learn!

Ohm1, my intention to posting this question was to get some help on how to lay out my bathroom wiring and not to receive a sarcastic response. Stereo wiring may not be exactly the same as this instance however it has similarities. Proper guage wire is required for both power source and speaker wiring depending on the amp rating of amplifiers and speakers used.

Jason

Ohm1
January 31st, 2004, 01:22 PM
Save it! If you are here to get help, then do not tell us what you do know. Obviously you feel we know what we are talking about, or you wouldn't have seen my remark as beening sarcastic. The truth of the matter: I was really interested in knowing. If you want to fill us in, then fill us in, or save the comments for someone else. I really don't have time!

Also, try to be a little more lucid with your questions, so we can better help you.

People aren't here to tell us what they know, if they have a question on what they don't know. We are here to tell you what we do know, and to learn from what we may not know, and do not know. We are not here to brag on what we know--but to feel good that we can place knowledge in the hands of those who didn't know.

Unregistered
January 31st, 2004, 02:17 PM
Ohm1 told it like it is!

Wiring audio or other type gear is NOT Residential Wiring.

Audio cant hurt personel or property but 120Volts can.

I dont think noboby here is being a Wise guy just trying to help
people out.

GL.....Ed

6pack
January 31st, 2004, 06:03 PM
Jdulberg, if your up on stereo equipment and the like ,you can help those with audio problems on web sight. You will find that sometimes the poster doesn't always want to do what is recommended by those offering there time and help. This is how I read your post and after posts & reposts you were able to get your answer but first SAFETY is KEY factor. Sometimes things hit you wrong when trying to help others. We could have simply answered your question but you had code violation factors that needed attension first. Many do not always tell what they have done, or where at in their project. GL2U

Wgoodrich
February 1st, 2004, 09:23 AM
Normal comments sometimes are picked up as sarcastic comments. Then again when replying repetitively on a certain subject tends to get frustrating to both that person seeking help and that person seeking knowledge.

In this case what was being sought was not being picked up and that was an explaination how to split hot conductor in a switch box. Then again the original poster was not picking up concern of those replying worry about Code violations. That concern then was picked up by the poster of concern of his knowledge level I suspect. Then that poster commented his level of experience to show his skill level so those replying could know how to reply. Then that comment on skill level was picked up as bragging raising the hair on that person replying promting a less than positive reply. Then comes in the feelings.

I really hate to see friction when seeking answers to a subject yet people are going to be human now and then. Just be caring and enjoy the subject of knowledge.

Be calm

Wg

jdulberg
February 1st, 2004, 09:37 AM
Thank you to all that have posted their help and comments related to this topic. I believe the problem was that I didn't notice the 14/2 - 12/2 issue noted in one of the 1st topics. It seems that that single number has caused friction which I did not intend. By no means did I not want to follow directions given and thank those for noting code violations. If I have a question to post in the future, I will be sure to, and encourage others to be more specific and detailed when asking questions and read responses carefully.

As an update, I just ran the 12/2 wire and will be completing the connections once I finish boxing in the shower.

Thanks.

Jason

6pack
February 1st, 2004, 11:28 AM
Jdulberg, good sensible reply, have to admit I also have lost it on ocassion. As stated sometimes human nature. Always glad to help if we can. Like I said if up on stereo and audio jump aboard always looking for people in the know.
Oh yah had to mention be carefull boxing in the shower!! You might come out "ring"ing wet. Anybody catch my sick humor. Boxing, shower, ring, wet. Almost like RL's humor. Take care there Jason.

Smithy
February 4th, 2004, 07:08 AM
I've noticed that Jason's location is listed as Ontario - I am under the impression that our CEC doesn't require 20A service to a bathroom, so 14 awg on a 15 amp circuit would be OK? Maybe our Canadian hair dryers aren't as powerful as those in the US!

I think this also a difference with respect to kitchen counter circuits.

look forward to reply from someone who knows!
S.