Tracing a circuit with a broken wire???

[johng250]

Need some help. House is 3 years old and the Heat/Vent/Light unit in one of the bathrooms went dead.

Checked the breaker (the HVL is on a dedicated circuit) and is good. Checked at the switch and have no power so suspect a broken wire.

Need to figure out which one of the multitude of romex wires coming from the box is the dedicated circuit. I have a tester but it only works with live circuits and this one is obviously dead.

Suggestions on how to proceed would be appreciated.

Figure I need to run new wire but need to figure out which wire is the one I need to splice into.

Thanks in advance.

John

[Wgoodrich]

Seriously doubt that you will need a new wire.

What did you touch with what type tester to decide you had no power at the switch? May be a false reading.

If you are on a dedicated circuit most likely the only splices or connections will be in the fan combo in the swtich or in the panel.

Go to your breaker panel and push lightly to the off position each 15 or 20 amp single pole breaker. If you find one that moves without clicking but just slides then suspect that breaker having tripped and needing reset. To reset a breaker turn that breaker hard to the off position then click back on. If it clicks on and off then the breaker is set. If you hear a hum and th breaker trips then turn off the breaker and tell us what you experienced.

I am suspecting a tripped breaker or bad fan. Suspect you did not make a true voltage test in your testing. Let us know what you touched during your voltage test.

Good Luck

Wg

[6pack]

couple things you might look for first! Did you turn breaker all the way to OFF position on breaker and then reset to ON. Is that heater connected from possibly a GFI recepticle somewhere that may be tripped? Are you sure panel cover marked right? Remove cover making sure your working with right breaker?(test all breakers). Look for loose wire on breaker or in that switch box check splices or possibly splice up in H/F/L unit itself splices should be availible to you,power may come from panel to unit then run to swiches? Few suggestions for starters. GL2U If you check those splices keep tract of what you take apart mark it down.

[johng250]

Here is what I have done.

1) Pulled toggle switch out and checked feed wire for power with voltmeter and test light. No power at switch from feed line.

2) Removed front panel from breaker box and checked breaker on the feed line for the unit. Breaker is not tripped and resets without a problem. Checked the output of the breaker with test light and have power out of the breaker.

3) Ran an alternate feed line to the toggle switch to test the HVL unit and it works fine from the switch.

Am figuring I need to run a new line because somewhere the existing line is broken. It is a dedicated line per code and figure somewhere along the way it got a nail, staple, or screw put through the Romex and broke the wire. Need to identify where the existing line exits the wall in the attic but not sure quickest, easiest way to do so.

Thoughts would be appreciated.

[Wgoodrich]

The odds are very low that it would be the wire. Lets do some testing and fact finding first.

You still did not tell me what you touched to decide if power was in this switch.

Did you touch the two prongs of the tester to the two screws of hte switch?
Is there two cables entering this switch box with two blacks and two white wires in that switch box?

Is anything else in this switch box such are a receptacle or a bathroom light fixture? How many switches are in this box?

Where did you get the second power source for you heat fan light for testing to see if it ran?

How many cables enter that fan light heat junction box inside the fan?

Curious

Wg

[johng250]

Let me try to clarify:

There are three 3/wire cables entering the switch box. There are two 3/wire cables entering the HVL assembly. There is nothing else in the switch box.

Everything else in the house is working properly and I cannot find a GFI that is on the line to any HVL circuit. The house has a total of 4 HVL units and each one has its own line and none of them have GFI's on them. All the bathrooms outlets are wired to a master GFI unit.

In the switch box two of the three 3/wire cables go directly to the HVL unit junction box in the ceiling. There are only two 3/wire cables that terminate at the HVL junction box and I am assuming that these are the two cables from the switch.

The last 3/wire cable appears to be the power line directly from the breakers. I checked the Hot and Neutral wires from this cable against ground with a test light and no power.

I used the test light in the breaker box and the breaker is good and supplying power to the output side.

There is a three rocker switch assembly that accepts 4 wires. One wire is the power source that comes from the cable that does not go to the ceiling unit. The other three are for each of the units functions, heat, ventilator, light.
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In order to determine whether the unit & switch was operational, I built a cable to bring power from a close by outlet and wired it in to the switch and all the HVL functions work which indicated to me that the feed line was bad.

Needless to say I am stumped.

John

[Wgoodrich]

Take a voltage test between the hot of hte two wire cable to that bare wires. See if you have voltage. If you do not have voltage then we definitely have a dead hot wire.

If you have voltage between the hot wire and the bare wire then you have an open neutral.

Then we will know what to look for a white or a black wire open in the circuit.

While it is possible to have a damaged wire it is uncommon.

Lets see what you find voltage or no voltage between the hot wire and the bare wire in the switch box of your two wire cable.

AFTER YOU TEST FOR VOLTAGE between the hot and bare wire in that switch box then take a close look at that wire nut containing all the white wires in that box also to make sure we don't have a loose connection under a wire nut.

If you have a dedicated branch circuit directly from the panel to the heat fan light fixture then you should have a nonstop run of romex from the panel to the switch box. Seldom is a non stop power run with an unspliced cable the cause of power outage.

Is it possible that two of these fans are on one branch circuit?

Curious

Wg

[johng250]

OK,

Have tested the voltage at the switch box and have nothing on the hot wire across either ground or neutral.

Opened up breaker box and moved hot wire to breaker I know is good. Still no power at the switch box.

Checked the neutral in the switch box and it is secure.

Checked the neutral in the breaker box and it is also secure.

Validated operation of all other outlets and lights and cannot find anything not working.

Now I'm really stumped.

[6pack]

You mentioned that you had 3 3wire cables in that switch box. Are you saying RD/White/Blk with ground (bare or green) or are you saying 3wire BLK/White with ground. If true 3wire RD/WHT/BLK with ground do you have that same RD/WHT/Blkwith ground in your breaker panel? What is RD wire doing if 3 wire?

[johng250]

All the cables are three wire - Black, White, and Ground.

Sorry about not being clear.

John

[6pack]

John! In the breaker panel itself?you shoule be able to trace wire to where it leaves the panel(at connector)? Is this just a 2wire W/ground or is it a 3 wire w/ground?BLK/RD/WHITE and bare? Reason being this may be a split-3wire circuit. If so? see which breaker the other wire is attached to(assume red from discussion) and check what that circuit is for?(how marked on cover)If you understand 3WIRE CURCUITS (NOT 3WIRE CABLE) you'll see where I'M coming from. If so? try and locate that 3wire cable at whats marked on panel cover. EXP/ maybe breaker #1 is for H/V/L and breaker #2 is also for anotherH/F/L you had mentioned. Then you might want to look in that switch box at h/v/l #2 to see if a splice came loose? or in the area of what ever is marked on cover for red wire. Again just guessing here! If circuit starts from main panel as rd/ wht/blk/ and ends at switch box you speak off as 2wire you have a splice some where? Sorry for length not good with wording. Gl

[johng250]

All the romex is 2 wire with ground. I've traced the wires in the panel and validated all connections are good with no splices visible.

John

[johng250]

Boy have I lead myself on a wild goose chase. I re-tested all the breakers and found one that was tripped. I reset it and low and behold the unit started working again. Bottom line, never trust what is written on the labels.

John

[Wgoodrich]

I was pretty sure it was not a single circuit wire that had failed.

Don't feel bad, every time you try and diagnose something electrically you will almost always be a loose wirenut or a switch away from fixiing the problem. Challenge is WHERE IN THE YOU KNOW WHAT is that one wire nut or switch to fix your problem.

Many times it takes days to discover you just forgot to plug in the appliance. Don't laugh many times very similar items were the cause of me scratching my head, only to find a very simple item was the problem and that item was about 6" from my face the whole time.

Glad you found your problem.

Congrats

Wg