dimmer switch on fan light?

[borderlink]

I tried installing a dimmer switch on a ceiling fan (so I will be able to dim the lights). It is a double wall switch, where one switch turns the fan on and off, the other turns the light on and off. After installing the dimmer to the switch controlling the light, I was able to dim the lights, but the fan blades had no power---or atleast they did not move. In your first reply, you said I cannot use a dimmer on the fan because it will damage the fan motor. Perhaps I made myself unclear...I do not want to use the dimmer to control the fan blade speed, just dim the light. Will installing the dimmer on the LIGHT switch still impact the fan motor?

If this helps, let me explain what wires I have in the box: From the center bundle, a black going to the back of the switch controlling the fan blades, and a red going to the back of the light switch (I assume these are the "hot wires"?). To the left of the center bundle, I have another bundle which includes a black wire, attaching to the bottom screw of the switch for the blades, then continues on, connecting to the top screw on the side of the light switch. On the other side of the box, I have a third bundle with a black wire going to the remaining screw on the side of the light switch.

The ONLY way I was able to get the light on was to connect the red wire in the box to the red wire on the dimmer.... I still have a black and green wire on the dimmer, and don't know which wires they need to be paired with. I tried both combinations, but no luck getting the fan to work.

Hope this information helps!

[imported_Ron]

In your situation, you should have been able to only remove the switch controlling the light, and replace that with a dimmer, never touching the wires controlling the fan.
Dimming the light should have no effect on the fan.

[borderlink]

Thanks Ron....exactly what I thought. Infact, that's exactly what I did. Never touched the wires for the fan itself, other than the jumper (is that what it's called?) running from the fan switch to the light switch. But in wiring the LIGHT, I lost power to the fan....go figure! So I'm still without a solution!!! All I can figure is I'm matching the wires on the dimmer to the wrong wires in the box. Any thoughts on that?

[Wgoodrich]

Drop the cone of the fan at the ceiling. Should just be loosening a screw or two and letting the cover cone to slide down the fan. If this is a ceiling hugger fan then tell us and we will investigate a different longer route to find the root of the problem. Dropping the cone would be easiest. Dropping a ceiling hugger that has no pipe allowing the fan to hang down is too much trouble. Tell us how many cables are in that fan box. Need to know if you have only a black, red, white and bare wires in one cable of if more cables with black and white wires are in that fan box. This tells us where power is confirmed to be coming from.

Also tell us if there used to be a second switch at a second location that controlled that fan light [three way switch sytem].

This will shed some light on the subject.

Curious

Wg

[borderlink]

Unfortunately, this is a ceiling hugger, so I cannot drop the cone. Can't anything be easy??? By the way, this fan is in a relatively new home, in a guest bedroom, with only one switch at the door.....no way any other location can be involved. (when you ask about the cables in the "fan box", can I assume that is the part I am unable to access at this point, or am I supposed to be sending you additional information at this time?) Thanks for working with me on this...I have guests arriving shortly, and would really like to have this ready before they get here!

[Wgoodrich]

Try leaving all wire nutting untouched as is.

Remove the wires from the dimmer and the wires from the switch.

This switch for the fan must be a single pole switch with two brass screws and one green screw only.

The dimmer should only have one black and one red wire and a green wire. If you have a dimmer that has more wires than that mentioned then come back in and tell me what the dimmer switch has on it. The wires and screws discribed above are the ones coming from the dimmer or single pole switch with no house wires connected at this time.

I am taking for granted that all of the white wires in the box are wire nutted together and none are touching any switch or dimmer.

Now with all the wires separated touch the red wire of the cable with a black red white and bare wires in it [keeping all white wires wire nutted together in the box] touch that red wire to each black wire one at a time and watch the fan or light. I am suspecting that the red wire touched to the one certain black wire we are looking for will make that light burn bright.

If you find that red wire touching only one black wire directly makes the light work then mark that one certain black wire as power in [hot]. Then as a second experiment touch the black wire found in the same cable as that red wire to that one certain black wire you marked as hot.

If this works then wire nut two 6" black pigtails to that one certain wire so you can go two different directions with that one wire split by using two black pigtails.

Now connect one pigtailed black wire to each device individually connecting one black pigtailed wire to one brass screw of the single pole switch and one black pigtailed wire to the black wire of the dimmer switch.

Now connect the red wire of the cable that has a black, red, white, bare in that cable to the dimmer switch red wire. [if it was the right wire that lit the light bulb in your test]. Then connect the black wire [if it was the right wire that turned on the fan] to the second brass screw of the single pole switch.

Test your switches and see if they start working.

Good Luck

Wg

[imported_Ron]

I'm not following.
From the first post "It is a double wall switch, where one switch turns the fan on and off, the other turns the light on and off."
From the last post "with only one switch at the door".
Which is it?
If there is only one switch for the fan and light, then you can't install a dimmer.

[borderlink]

Sorry about the confusion, Ron. The comment about one switch at the door was referring to an inquiry about if the fan was also controlled from another location. Guess I should have said "I have a double switch at the door, and no switches at any other location." And yes, I have seperate switches for the fan and the light. Hope this helps---as I'm still in need of a solution. Thanks for following up---I'm convinced we're gonna get this thing working eventually!

[borderlink]

wg...thanks for the info. I'll be trying it tomorrow when I have daylight. Til then...a few questions. Am I correct in assuming I should disconnect then cross-test ALL wires in the box....for both the light AND the fan? It sounds like you suspect the fan and light have some wires that may be reversed. (would it have been able to function all this time with crossed wires, using regular switches?)Also, you mention pigtailing. You DO realize I have no wires in the box capable of pigtailing...they are thick copper wires that have colored coating. (Or don't I understand pigtailing---am I supposed to pigtail the wires from the dimmer, then secure with wire nuts? Or do I "split" the coated copper by adding splitable wire with a wingnut, to the coated copper, THEN splitting?) I'm also a bit confused when you mention those 6" black pigtails....you want me to add additional wire to lenghten the dimmer wires? Thanks again---sorry about all these questions. ( would it help if you knew that I'm blond?)

[Wgoodrich]

Blonde or not, male or female if you are human and you have patience we will succeed ! Ha Ha.

I am suspecting that you may have power in one light fixture using both a black and white in that cable going to that switch both as hot switch wires. Then I am suspecting that the other light pulls power from the switch. This would mean that although the wiring on untouched boxes may be correct and probably are we will have to wire the two lights in two different manners.

Pigtailing is cutting a lenth of wire such as a single wire and adding the 6" pigtails to that one wire under one wire nut so we can go two different dirctions at once from that one wire nut.

If you have wire pigtails on the dimmer switch you can use that wire as the pigtail for that dimmer. Some dimmers are with screws and some dimmers are with pigtails.

If your dimmer has pigtails already connected then you can connect it directly to the group of black wires under that one nut and just add one pigtailed black wire to go to the second switch.

Tell us what you find from my last reply with my latest suggestions.

Curious

Wg

[borderlink]

We're really starting to make some headway here! All your suspicions proved right when I started testing wires! Unfortunately, I'm at a standstill until I get some wire to serve as my pigtail. Until then, I need to find out about one wire you didn't address....that's the one that I suspect is the source of this entire mess...a seemingly worthless black wire ( I think it's called a jumper) going from the fan switch to the light switch. Do I just cap it with a wire nut?

I'll be finishing this soon...and I'll be sure to let you know the outcome. Just keep your fingers crossed for me on this one.... (I certainly don't need any more WIRES crossed!!!!)

[Wgoodrich]

When you install the two pigtails to the switches it will replace the jumper between the switch and the dimmer. That jumper can be discarded. The two pigtails will take that jumper's place and get you properly wired with only one wire per connection on the switch and dimmer.

Let us know how you come out.

Wg

[borderlink]

GOT IT!!! Once the pigtails were in place I had power to both switches! As for the jumper, I am unable to discard it, as it's part of a bundle coming from the wall (containing that and a white wire...I'm guessing, the reason for this whole mess!) I assume it needs to be cut where it was stripped to wrap around the first screw, then capped. Also, I still have a green wire on the dimmer (ground I assume?) that has nowhere to go. There are no unused wires, other than the disconnected jumper. Do I attach it to the green screw on the fan switch?

Let me thank you personally for all the help you gave me. You have the patience of a saint! (I'm sure you will be glad to hear the last of Borderlink!) But before I go, I want you to know, in this season of miracles you just performed your own...you walked a blond female through a wiring disaster. Thanks again!!!

[Wgoodrich]

You need to make a 6" green insulated or bare equipment grounding conductor pigtail then take that new added pigtail connected to the green screw of the switch and that existing dimmer switches green pigtail and connect both to the wire nut that joined all your bare and / or green wires in the box.

All you are doing is bonding the dimmer casing and the switch casing to your bare equipment grounding conductors of that branch circuit. All greens and bares are to be connected under one wire nut in that box.

You NOW tell me I have been dealing with a female blonde. With this new knowledge held back until this time and after much consideration don't you think we should rip all the wires loose again in that switch box and start all over again ???? NOT ! Wait, I was just kidding, ha ha.

Congrats you did it yourself

Wg

[borderlink]

After another trip to the store, for GREEN wire this time, I'm happy to report all wires are intact, the fan is working, the light is dimming, and the face plate is on! I hope I NEVER have to see the inside of that box again!

Now that this is over...one question. Was the wiring in this situation, should I say...a "little unconventional"? I always thought adding a dimmer was a no brainer!

I'm signing off now to leave you in peace, and again, THANK YOU!!!! :)

(and no, after careful consideration, I’m NOT ripping all the wires loose and starting over again!)

[Wgoodrich]

This project in my eyes was a simple project that if I had been there could have been repaired correctly in about 10 minutes if I did it. Problem is with my personality the first question you would have asked me would have triggered the idea to let you experience and learn as you have just done. YOu may not have learned a lot but for the rest of your life you will benefit from some little point that you picked up in this do it yourself project. If nothing else than to have felt that feeling when you finally did work out your own project. While we worked off and on for a good while on the project. You learned the entire way through a little something each time we replied.

That feeling of success on your own by your own two hands can not be duplicated or the feeling explained yet you now have experienced it. The time spent was worth while to you for what you have learned. The time was also spent worth while to me because I helped someone learn a bit more in their life. YOu may never speak to me again but experiences in your life will flourish a bit more for you having worked through this project with your own mind and your own two hands. The knowledge that I gave you that oppertunity to experience what you did is what seems to make me tick. To know you are a bit better off for having made contact with me / us and this forum or our web site makes my life richer even for decades after I have left this world. YOu learned, you will end up helping someone else learn. If nothing else but how to take one thing at a time piece by piece till you reach success. The influence we made available to you and in the future you will make available to someone else is our best hope of making this world a little bit better. That I believe is everyone's dream, to have influenced to the positive something in the world during our lifetime. If that is not everyone's goal maybe if we spread what we experienced in this project to others one at a time piece by piece we can accoplish the desire in those who don't yet have those desires because they haven't yet met someone like those in this forum. One who helps others a bit is one step toward a better world that we live in. You now are a part of that one step toward that better world we live in. YOu will at some time in the future pass on what you have experienced here in this project in some manner to the good of others. You learned we enjoyed your success.

Congrats and see you on your next project.

Wg