Hard wiring an outside light from an inside outlet

[Heather MacLeod]

The home depot guy told me that I could hard wire an outside (post-type) light from an inside outlit by doing the following:

Turn off the electricity and undo the outlet.
Drill a hole to the outside.
Attach new wiring from two of the screws on the outlet plug thing.
Run that wire to the outside through the hole of a little box.
Attach the wire to a GFI outlet (after attaching the box to the wall).
Run more wire from the box (through a pvc conduit) and to the light.
Attach those wires from the conduit to the light kit.

The home depot guy swears I will not burn down my house. Does anyone else think otherwise?

[Wgoodrich]

YOU SAID;
Turn off the electricity and undo the outlet.

REPLY;
good start so far however when it was said undo the outlet it meant to open the outlet box so you can get to the wires. Do not remove any wires. But make sure to shut off breaker first before you touch anything. Also do your homework so you are not guessing about anything and think ahead to confirm you are not walking into a hard ship like fishing wires into an outside receptacle box that is set inside a brick wall. Plan ahead first.

YOU SAID;
Drill a hole to the outside.

REPLY;
This drill a hole to the outside is way over simplified. If you have an outside receptacle you will need to dig a trench GFI protected 12" deep from the post light to the point into the crawl space below the outside receptacle. Then you must knock a hole through your cement block foundation so you can take this wire [12/2wGrnd UF cable approved for direct burial in the earth] through the foundation into the crawl space. Then you must drill a hole carefully ensuring the hole drilled enters the wall and not through the wall to the outside or through your nice hardwood floors inside your home. Then you will need to fish the UF cable from the crawl space into your stud space and into the receptacle box containing your outiside receptacle.

YOU SAID;
Attach new wiring from two of the screws on the outlet plug thing.

REPLY;
Now you are making me a bit nervous. When you said plug thing it tells me you are very unfamiliar with what you are doing. You need to do a lot of research and learning before you deal with a product such as electrical wiring. Remember electrical wiring is a life safety issue. While we take it for granted because it is always waiting to do work for us we forget that electricity when improperly installed or handled will kill you. Know what you are doing before you jump in unknowing what you do.

YOU SAID;
Run that wire to the outside through the hole of a little box. Attach the wire to a GFI outlet (after attaching the box to the wall).
Run more wire from the box (through a pvc conduit) and to the light.


REPLY;
Again you are not sure what little box or what hole you are supposed to be installing through. The little box is the box containing your receptacle and was discribed earlier in this reply. You must then take the UF cable that is in the trench to the post light and pass your UF cable through the hole in the post and fished up through the post to your light fixture.. In the house outside receptacle you must connect your black wire to the brass screw and your white wire to the silver screw and hte bare wire to the other bare wires in that receptacle. If you fail to do this you may be creating a shock hazard that may seriously hurt someone tommorrow or 20 years later. Electrical when done wrong is very patient. It will patiently wait with that shock hazard for years until one person touches the wrong thing then in a split second someone is hurt or dead. Not a pretty picture to set up unless you have done your homework and know what you are doing then don't do it. Do it yourself is fine but only for those that do their homework and know and understand what is being done to ensure safety for house and home as well as loved ones and strangers in the far future.

YOU SAID;
Attach the wire to a GFI outlet (after attaching the box to the wall).
Run more wire from the box (through a pvc conduit) and to the light.
Attach those wires from the conduit to the light kit.

REPLY;
The GFI outlet is referring to a GFI protected receptacle yet the GFI protective device may be located in that receptacle, or in the bathroom, or in the kitchen, or in the garage, or in the panel. You have to research where this GFI protetective device is located to ensure you are dealing with a GFI protected receptacle.

YOU SAID;
The home depot guy swears I will not burn down my house. Does anyone else think otherwise?

REPLY;
The home depot guy has a lot more guts than I do in saying what you quote. In a split second if electricity is done wrong that hazardous electricity can injure, cost much money in damages as much as loss of entire home, or even kill now or in the far future.

This home depot guy is probably thinking that this is just a 15 or 20 amp branch circuit and it is gFI protected what can be hurt.

You answer this question after I explain what a GFI protective device does. When I was a kid and if a plugged in lamp or radio fell into the bathtub full of water where I was taking a bath then I WAS A DEAD DUCK no questions asked. Now with the pleasure of having GFI protection on that receptacle where this table lamp or radio is plugged in we not can enjoy the comfortable feeling that while that radio or table lamp GFI protected falls into the bathtub full of water where I am taking a bath I HAVE ABOUT A 50/50% CHANCE OF SURVIVING.

Are you ready to take a bath with a plugged in radio that I GFI protected? If so the you will have the false feeling that you are safe and can't hurt yourself or anyone else while you wire up a post light without doing your homework.

PLEASE DO NOT TEST THE 50/50% CHANCE ABOVE concerning the bathtub or the outside post light. Do you homework first, know what you are doing and why then you can make an informed decision as to whether you want to try this self help project.

Be cafeful and Be safe.

Wg

[macstr]

Wgoodrich,

I agree with everything you said but would like to clear something up. (in my own mind)

She SAID;
Attach the wire to a GFI outlet (after attaching the box to the wall).
Run more wire from the box (through a pvc conduit) and to the light.
Attach those wires from the conduit to the light kit.

You Said;
The GFI outlet is referring to a GFI protected receptacle yet the GFI protective device may be located in that receptacle, or in the bathroom, or in the kitchen, or in the garage, or in the panel. You have to research where this GFI protetective device is located to ensure you are dealing with a GFI protected receptacle.

I'm Saying;
You seem to be assuming that their is already a GFI in the line. I'm assuming the HD guy was going to sell her the GFI to be installed in the outside box which also does not exisit yet.

Heather, can you clear this up?

Thanks,
Matt

[Wgoodrich]

Mat I reread the wording in the first post. The reference was to an inside receptacle not to an outside receptacle as I had in mind it said. My reply would stay the same except what you pointed out she would have to install the GFI receptacle in that inside receptacle box if that is where new power to the post light will come from.

Good Catch

Wg

[Heather MacLeod]

Okay. I think you have the general gist of what I did. I'm not good w/ the lingo.

After I unscrewed the inside outlit and pulled it out from the wall (without detaching any wires), I got behind where the outlit gets pushed up into the wall and drilled a hole through to the outside of my WOOD house.

From the inside, I attached (to the inside outlit) the black wire to the gold screw, the white wire to the silver screw, and the ground wire went with the ground wire of the already wired outlit. When I attached the new wires, I used the screws on the outlit that were not already being used by the wires from the house.

The new wire, I put through the hole to the outside and I put it through the back of a plastic box that has a hole in the back, a hole in the top and a hole in the bottom.

Then, OUTSIDE the house in the new little plastic box (that I attached to the outside of the house), I wired that new wire to a GFI outlit that the guy at HD sold me. It's a regular GFI outlit. So, I guess it is running on the same wiring that runs my bedroom outlits. Does that make sense? I wired it by running the black to the gold screw, the white to the silver screw and the ground to the green ground screw.

Then I buried a conduit (pvc) and ran wire through it and up into the bottom hole of the new plastic box. That wire I attached to the remaining two screws on the GFI outlit (black to gold, white to silver and sharing the ground with the ground wire from the house). Which means, the new GFI outlit that is (I think) running on the same circuit as the bedroom regular outlits, is wired from the new wires coming from the house and is wired with new wire to the electric light post.

It's sort of like a chain.

Could you please tell me if that sounds better?

Also, I'm v. aware of the risks, which is why I continually questioned the HD guy about the wisdom of this wiring job and he ASSURED me this would be safe. He assured me over and over again, and even said, "don't think you can't do this." AND, that is why I am posting this. So, please understand that while I may not use the same lingo, I am working toward the same goal. Also, please keep in mind that a lot of people who do their own wiring got training from their FATHERs and not from research. If I could understand the lingo, then perhaps the books I've attempted to read on this would not be so difficult to understand. In fact, the light kit directions, intended for any regular joe shmoe, were written in three different languages...none English.

I am not cheap when it comes to safety, but I am living on a social worker's income and I need a safety light outside, and I cannot afford to hire an electrician. I looked for a plug in light, but the HD guy said it would actually be safer to hardwire the light.

[Wgoodrich]

The box you installed outside MUST BE A WEATHERPROOF BOX.

The cover plate for that GFI receptacle outside must be an IN-USE WEATHERPROOF RECEPTACLE COVER that will make weather proof not only the plugins of the receptacle but also the plug when it is plugged into the receptacle.
Look on the side of the cable you are burying outside in the trench, Make sure the writing on that cable say UF cable. The UF stands for underground feeder. It must say sunlight resistant and corrosion resistant on the side of that wire. Hoping the salesman sold you the right wire to direct bury.
Make sure the trench is at least 12" deep
That part of the wire that is going down from your GFI receptacle box into the ground must be protected by a piece of PVC conduit to protect that wire from physical damage.

There is no need for a box at the post light the post of the light will serve as you junction box.

THE GFI MUST BE WIRED IN A SPECIFIC MANNER. THE BLACK AND WHITE WIRE GOING TO THE POST LIGHT MUST BE CONNECTED TO THE TWO SCREWS ON THAT GFI RECEPTACLE THAT SAYS "LOAD"

THE BLACK AND WHITE WIRE COMING TO THE GFI FROM THE INSIDE MUST BE CONNECTED TO THE TWO SCREWS THAT SAY "LINE".

Inside the pipe is where you will use three wire nuts to connect the wires of the light fixture to the wires coming from underground. Black to black white to white and bare to green.

Let us know how you come out.

Good Luck

Wg

[Heather MacLeod]

Okay. I think I'm on your page now.

I have to double check this tomorrow, but I'm almost certain that I have the line feeding from the inside of the house to the outside GFI outlet going into the LINE screws. I remember thinking that the LOAD screws would be sort of like, a truck with a LOAD to DELIVER and so they must be the screws that the line to the light attach.

I am concerned about the GFI outlet. The INSIDE outlet is NOT GFI. The OUTSIDE outlet IS. It would make sense that if water were to get into the outlet, the inside outlet should be GFI. I need advice for this.

Also, the box I got is meant for outside according to the HD guy. But, I'm going to double check. I also caulked around it.

I have pvc protecting the entire wire that feeds to the light.

Thank you for your help.

[Wgoodrich]

You may install your GFI receptacle in place of the inside receptacle you now have inside your home. Then take that old receptacle and install it in you weatherproof outlet box outside. This would increase the life expectancy of your GFI receptacle and everything including the outside receptacle and the post light would be protected by the GFI installed inside feeding those outside receptacle and light from the load side of the GFI receptacle placed in you home protected from the weather. It is your choice but a good idea you have mentioned.

If your wiring to the post light is in a PVC conduit between the outside receptacle and the post then the wiring in that conduit should have THWN written on its side being a black, white, and bare or green wire all single conductors. You may install UF cable in a conduit underground but do not use NMB [aka normal inside Romex] in that conduit outside. Normal Romex is not approved for sunlight resistant or wet location. Any conductors buried is considered to be a wet location whether in a conduit or not.


Good Luck and let us know how you come out.

Wg

[Heather MacLeod]

Dear Wgoodrich, thank you for helping me with this.

I checked the lines and I was right that I had sent the load to the post and the house to the line. So, that's good.

I put UF cable in the conduit, which was not easy and maybe that is because it doesn't need to be in conduit. I think this would make it even safer....correct?

The lid on the outside box (that's attached to the house and holds the gfi outlet) says something like, "this is only okay to have in water if the lid is closed." Is that the right lid?

The box doesn't say anything on the side, but it is metal (grey), little (just big enough to get that outlet in it) and has the three holes: top, bottom and back, and has a little silver cap for the top whole. The pvc feeds up through the bottom hole. Is that the right box?

If this is all done correctly, do you think it's okay to install another post light in another location from another inside outlet (doing the same thing)? I wondered if I continue to use the outlets fired by the switch (in the very main house box) that says "bedroom outlets" won't they eventually overload? I only want to install 3 more lights. Or, are there any post lights that I could get that have a PLUG, which is what I wanted in the first place?

Once again, thanks for any help in this matter. :mrgreen: (I don't even know what that means, but I liked the emoticon)

[Heather MacLeod]

OH, I didn't know that the emoticon would actually look like what I'd clicked on! It just came up in the script as "mr.green:" HA

[Wgoodrich]

The box you discribed is a metal weatherproof box this is fine. You did good coming in the bottom of the box this also will shed water. This is the key point is if your finished product will shed water by using the equipment you installed without the use of caulking or other sealant. Also on thing for you to learn is that there is supposed to be a manner in which that if water did enter the box it can drain out. This conduit entering the bottom of the box provides that method of drainage.

YOu may dig a trench directly from the first post light to the second post light and provide power to the second post light from that first post light.

You may also do the project all over again out of any side of your house picking up power again from a different inside receptacle. However remember you must not pick up power from a laundry, kitchen, dining, nook, pantry, or bathroom receptacle circuit. These are specialty circuits ordered that nothing but those receptacles are allowed on those receptacles serving those room. Living, bed, den, garage, hall and almost any other spot you can pick up power to serve an outside receptacle or light.

A 15 amp branch circuit is allowed to carry 1800 watts. That would equal up to 18 - 100 watt bulbs. A 20 amp branch circuit is allowed to carry 2400 watts. That would equal up to 24 - 100 watt bulbs. Adding your post lights should be no concern as to adding load to an existing branch circuit unless forbidden as discribed in those certain rooms above. Outside receptacles are considered as a general lighting receptacle governed by the same rules as receptacles in a living room for example other than outside receptacles must be weatherproof with a bubble shield cover and GFI proteceted.

Below is a picture of an outside GFI receptacle that I suspect will look like yours and is approved for use outside.

Hope this helps

Wg

http://www.homewiringandmore.com/storage/abovegroundpools/poolpumpbubbleshieldreceptacle3.jpg

[Heather MacLeod]

Thank you for that picture, as it show me I do not have the right cover on my box. The electrician who rewired my home when I bought it did not put a bubble cover on the one outside outlet. :roll: I am going to go and buy some for these outlets...they look much more secure. I am assuming they attach in the same way as the other covers.

I hate to keep this post running :oops: , but I do not understand how to run another light from the existing light as I only have one UF wire going to the light. How would I connect another UF wire to that and still be able to connect the original to the original light? Would I make a "T" by connecting the original wire to two separate UF wires (going in opposite directions) using little plastic caps? If this is how to do it, do I connect the ground wires of all three using a cap also? :?

[Wgoodrich]

The bubble shield weatherproof outside receptacle covers are new to the Code as of the 2002 version. Now all outside receptacles must be with this in-use bubble shield weatherproof cover plate. Yes you can buy the kind with a gasket and replace you old weatherproof cover plates that just protected from weather if nothing was pluggeg.

You can feed the second post light in a daisy chain manner digging your trench from post light ot post light to post light. What you will have is the UF cable power coming into the light post and a second UF cable going out of that post light to the second post light and so on.

The connections would be done with wirenuts installed inside the post where the light fixture is connected. You normally would have connected black to black and white to white and bare to green of that light fixture of that post. When you extend power to the next light post you will have two UF cables and still you would connect all blacks to black and whites to white and bares to green or bare. This will extend power to the next post light. This may be repeated extending in a daisy chain manner from post light to post light till you reach the end post light where you would only have the one UF calbe black to black and white to white and bare to green.

Let us know how you come out.

Good Luck

Wg