Ceiling fan on concrete ceiling

[mike561]

Older condo in SE Fla. Concrete celing with no fixture in ceiling at this time. The problem is how to best install and hide the wiring? Ive seen some people who've "swagged" the wire and some who have used raceway, neither one looks good, in my opinion. My only thought is to channel out the ceiling in order to bury the cable.. I would appreciate any advice or suggestions. (If I can channel out the ceiling how deep must I go in order to be safe and within code?) I had planned on using 12/2 from the fan to an outlet on one of the walls.

[imported_Ron]

If you choose to channel the concrete, you must install the wiring in conduit.
Have you seen the surface mounted raceway? For example from Wiremold. Some of it is not too bad.
http://www.wiremold.com/product_catalog/perimeter/index.html

[Anonymous]

Thanks Ron, I will give them a look. I really dont wont to cut out the ceiling but was looking for a "neat, clean" job. Mike 561

[Wgoodrich]

Ron bringing up wiremold [Sunday go to meeting conduit style] is probably your best choice. Remember that is you channel that concrete ceiling your patch is often as notibable as installing a neat wiremold system as Ron suggested.

I did want to point out that metal conduit such as EMT and metal Wire mold is not approved to be embedded in concrete. If you decide to trench the concrete make sure you are not risking loss of intergrity of strength in your structure and that you use nonmetallic conduit such as flexible ENT or PVC rigid conduit approved to be embedded in concrete.

Also you mentioned 12/2. If you wire as Ron suggested or other form of conduit you should be installing single strand wires such as TW or THHN or other single insulated wires to keep from overfilling your condiut and ease of installation.

Also if you are going to do the job then you might want to check on installing a red or other hot colored insulated conductor with your fan wires to give you an option of switching your fan and a light separately.

Just some extra after thoughts you might want to consider.

Good Luck

Wg

[imported_Ron]

Although not a great selection for conduit in concrete, EMT is permitted Article 358.10(B). I believe all EMT manufactured now has corrosion protection as required by that code article. Generally for me, it is PVC or Rigid Galv Steel Conduit to be embedded im my specs.

[Anonymous]

Mike,

Living in S. Florida I have come across your situation many times. I don't care for surface raceways either.

What you can do is stud out the ceiling with 3/4" PT furring, install your EMT or NM, and put in new sheetrock. I have done this many times when the ceiling is in only one room.


This is a lot easier than cutting the concrete and the patch will never look right let alone what you may do to the structure.

My 2 cents.

[aphares]

:?: Not being from Florida, I'm curios as to what is above the concrete ceiling, (the outside) (upstairs)?
Is there any way to run conduit on top, and then enter back in at the center?

[Wgoodrich]

Ron while you are right allowing EMT embedded in concrete you have limitations that apply that you should be careful to consider.

COPIED SECTION OF 2002 NEC;

358.10 Uses Permitted.
(B) Corrosion Protection. Ferrous or nonferrous EMT, elbows, couplings, and fittings shall be permitted to be installed in concrete, in direct contact with the earth, or in areas subject to severe corrosive influences WHERE PROTECTED BY CORROSION PROTECTION and judged suitable for the condition.


COPIED SECTION OF 2002 NEC COMMENTARY;
According to the 2001 UL General Information for Electrical Equipment Directory (White Book), category FJMX, galvanized steel electrical metallic tubing (EMT) installed in concrete, on grade or above, generally requires no supplementary corrosion protection. Galvanized steel electrical metallic tubing in concrete slab below grade level may require supplementary corrosion protection. In general, galvanized steel

COPIED SECTION OF 2002 NEC commentary;
Where ferrous or nonferrous metal conduit has corrosion protection and is judged suitable for the condition, it may be installed in concrete, in contact with the earth, or in areas exposed to severe corrosive influence. Special precautions are normally necessary for installing aluminum conduits in concrete, and specific approval by the authority having jurisdiction may be necessary.

300.6
(B) In Concrete or in Direct Contact with the Earth. Ferrous or nonferrous metal raceways, cable armor, boxes, cable sheathing, cabinets, elbows, couplings, fittings, supports, and support hardware shall be permitted to be installed in concrete or in direct contact with the earth, or in areas subject to severe corrosive influences where made of material judged suitable for the condition, or where provided with corrosion protection approved for the condition.

Opinion;

Before you embed EMT in concrete you should confirm the AHJ will accept it embedded in concrete. If moisture is prestent the AHJ may forbid the installation. Many occasions EMT is fine in concrete but only in dry above ground conditions. If moisture is present confirm with the AHJ. I still am not sure at this time if this concrete ceiling in this building being asked about is a dry ceiling or wet roof combo ceiling / roof construction style.

Good catch Ron I didn't clearify my doubt on the moisture exposure of this ceiling.

Good Luck

Wg

[Anonymous]

Thank you all for the great replys. Ive only been down here for about 4 yrs and this situation is very common. Most of the condo bdlgs are built this way. All outside walls and ceilings are either concrete or cbs. (I assume its because of Hurricane codes) There is no way to come in from the top. I agree that a patch would probably look worse than the wiremold. I do like your idea Ron but dont know if the customer would like the additional cost. Again, thank you all.