*noel
December 11th, 2003, 11:25 AM
365: running rg6, cat5, and phone in wall? Author: noel, Location: Arkansas Posted: 19 Sep 2002 08:48 pm
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Hello,
While I'm doing all this electrical wiring, I want to run a few other cables to a point or two. What I was wondering is there any code or general suggestions regarding this. I was thinking about running all three, (rg6, cat5, and phone wire) to a single or dbl gang box.
Thanks
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#372: Author: dkerr, Location: Ottawa Ontario Canada Posted: 20 Sep 2002 08:30 am
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Good morning noel,
Do not tightly tie cat 5 cable to any electical or cablevision wire, at 10 base T speeds it may not be as much a concern, but at at 10 base 100 or greater data speeds , any minute inteference may affect reliability at those speeds.
I am not speaking from an electrical code perspective but from a data communications perspective, and I always prefered to keep communication & data wiring separate from electrical wiring. My recomendation is to not mix cablevision/cat 5 /telephone in the same electrical boxes as the household electrical system. It would be best to run your cable / cat 5 /telephone cables thru separate holes thru the studs if at all possible, perhaps run the cablevision, cat 5 , telephones via one route (still don't tightly tie them but they can go thru the same holes in the studs) and the electrical thru another route , even if only 6 inches away. cat 5 / telephone / cablevision are of a low power variety and done have the induction carry over that electrical wires can if they are tight together with other wires.
Telephone wires run from dc power except during the ring cycle , the telephone ring is ac power, household electical wire are ac (alternating current)
If you intend on using a computer network down the road, then at each point in the house that you may need at computer link, run a separate run of cat 5 to each point from a comon point . Lets say a cat 5 run from the basement or other predetermined point and from that point a separate run to each location where a possible computer could be. You cannot as in telephones run a loop of a single cable thru the house. Now the common point would be a location when your internet would be , like the dsl or cable modem, and router/hub, from there a separate feed to each computer location.
The same would hold true for cablevison , a separate run to a common point , which in cablevision case would be the point of cablevision entry into your home from teh street. You will get better/cleaner signals if you do your splitting/amplifing at the point of entry then to be splitting it further into the house, the point of entry is the spot where the signal sould be at its best before it degrades or picks up interference thru out the house.
Telephone wires can run in a loop thru out the house.
One more note on cat 5 cables for computer networking...
the cable consists of 8 wires in twisted 2 wire pairs, computer networking usaully uses 4 wires , 2 twisted pairs, although most people wire all 8 wires in the rj 45 male or female connectors. The receive or transmit pair must be on the same twisted pair (this min noise and reliability problems).
Another analogy concerning not having wires running tightly together...
Considerer how transformers work , 2 windings wound on a core , voltage/power step up or down is done thru inductance, the electrical field generated by one winding induces a voltage on the other winding thru ac field generation and colapsing. this can also , of course to a much lessor degree have an effect on close tied communciation wires. A few years ago we had an instance at a broaddcase tv station where I work , we had a couple of high current lighting cables in use and a length excess cable was wound up in a loop on the floor, and the cable that normally could easily handle the current literally burned.
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#402: cat 5 with rg6 Author: handyx, Posted: 21 Sep 2002 11:14 pm
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I'm currently running rg6 and cat 5 (homerun from 2nd story to basement). How far from electric should I keep these. Once I'm in the basement I was going to use the same holes in the joists as the electric (10 feet).
I am also installing a dual outlet for diff internet options (reg phone for dsl and rg6 for cable dsl. For now I only need to use 1 pair in the cat5 for Ameritech dsl. I've heard of them bundling cat5 with other cables ..just want to be sure, before I patch up the wall.
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#407: Author: dkerr, Location: Ottawa Ontario Canada Posted: 22 Sep 2002 11:13 am
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If you are stuck, chances are you will get away with it running close by for 10 feet, just don't tie the cables together with ties, and the only place it will be really tight togeter is the 2" inches where it actually goes thru the stud/joist . The high current electrical cables are usaully the electrical 220v cables feeding the range, dryer, aircon system, so I would afford running your communication cables next to these. I usaully prefer wherever possible to keep communication wires a piece away from electical, I usally like at least 6 inches , but even a couple of inches is likley far enough from general purpose electrical wiring , further for high current wiring.
I think what you are refering to when you say you are only using 1 pair in the cat 5 cable is that you are using the cat 5 as a clean telephone connection to where your dsl modem will be connected to. The 2 wires you use must come from the same twisted pair. Have no breaks in your cablevision or cat 5 along the route, this lowers the chance of degrading or interference. Have good connectors on the ends of the cablevision wire, improper connectors or loose connectors can be a problem. If you put both the cablevision and cat 5 connection in the same box, and should your cable connection not be used, screw on a 75ohm terminator on the cable connection, this lessons interference or degrading when the cable connection is not in use.
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#418: Author: handyx, Posted: 22 Sep 2002 10:20 pm
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Got the cat 5 and rg6 fished from 2nd floor to the basement. What a job!
Thanks for the info about terminating the 75ohm cable connection
I can also disconnect it from the basement when its not in use.
should I hook up only one pair (red/green) to the phone interface,
or should I connect a second pair (yellow/black) even though I'm not planning on using it? As for staying away from the electric - how far ... 2 feet, 4 feet -- I was running parallel to it.
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#420: Author: Wgoodrich, Location: Indiana Posted: 22 Sep 2002 11:14 pm
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The yellow black hook up is your choice. Hooking them in as your go leaves you a second line capability in the future or you can leave them disconnected and then you can go back through and connect them if you desire the second line at a later date.
The paralleling of electrcal cables for a distance longer than 6 to 10 feet is what you want to avoid. 6" away is fine for the distance from an electrical cable. You just want to run a different path with your communications cables than the electrical. When electric parallels communications for long distances in close proximity of each other [within say 6"] then interference can occur between the to cable systems that may cause you data or voice loss or low quality experience due to this paralleling that invited the interference between the two cable systems.
HOpe this helps
Wg
----
Hello,
While I'm doing all this electrical wiring, I want to run a few other cables to a point or two. What I was wondering is there any code or general suggestions regarding this. I was thinking about running all three, (rg6, cat5, and phone wire) to a single or dbl gang box.
Thanks
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#372: Author: dkerr, Location: Ottawa Ontario Canada Posted: 20 Sep 2002 08:30 am
----
Good morning noel,
Do not tightly tie cat 5 cable to any electical or cablevision wire, at 10 base T speeds it may not be as much a concern, but at at 10 base 100 or greater data speeds , any minute inteference may affect reliability at those speeds.
I am not speaking from an electrical code perspective but from a data communications perspective, and I always prefered to keep communication & data wiring separate from electrical wiring. My recomendation is to not mix cablevision/cat 5 /telephone in the same electrical boxes as the household electrical system. It would be best to run your cable / cat 5 /telephone cables thru separate holes thru the studs if at all possible, perhaps run the cablevision, cat 5 , telephones via one route (still don't tightly tie them but they can go thru the same holes in the studs) and the electrical thru another route , even if only 6 inches away. cat 5 / telephone / cablevision are of a low power variety and done have the induction carry over that electrical wires can if they are tight together with other wires.
Telephone wires run from dc power except during the ring cycle , the telephone ring is ac power, household electical wire are ac (alternating current)
If you intend on using a computer network down the road, then at each point in the house that you may need at computer link, run a separate run of cat 5 to each point from a comon point . Lets say a cat 5 run from the basement or other predetermined point and from that point a separate run to each location where a possible computer could be. You cannot as in telephones run a loop of a single cable thru the house. Now the common point would be a location when your internet would be , like the dsl or cable modem, and router/hub, from there a separate feed to each computer location.
The same would hold true for cablevison , a separate run to a common point , which in cablevision case would be the point of cablevision entry into your home from teh street. You will get better/cleaner signals if you do your splitting/amplifing at the point of entry then to be splitting it further into the house, the point of entry is the spot where the signal sould be at its best before it degrades or picks up interference thru out the house.
Telephone wires can run in a loop thru out the house.
One more note on cat 5 cables for computer networking...
the cable consists of 8 wires in twisted 2 wire pairs, computer networking usaully uses 4 wires , 2 twisted pairs, although most people wire all 8 wires in the rj 45 male or female connectors. The receive or transmit pair must be on the same twisted pair (this min noise and reliability problems).
Another analogy concerning not having wires running tightly together...
Considerer how transformers work , 2 windings wound on a core , voltage/power step up or down is done thru inductance, the electrical field generated by one winding induces a voltage on the other winding thru ac field generation and colapsing. this can also , of course to a much lessor degree have an effect on close tied communciation wires. A few years ago we had an instance at a broaddcase tv station where I work , we had a couple of high current lighting cables in use and a length excess cable was wound up in a loop on the floor, and the cable that normally could easily handle the current literally burned.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#402: cat 5 with rg6 Author: handyx, Posted: 21 Sep 2002 11:14 pm
----
I'm currently running rg6 and cat 5 (homerun from 2nd story to basement). How far from electric should I keep these. Once I'm in the basement I was going to use the same holes in the joists as the electric (10 feet).
I am also installing a dual outlet for diff internet options (reg phone for dsl and rg6 for cable dsl. For now I only need to use 1 pair in the cat5 for Ameritech dsl. I've heard of them bundling cat5 with other cables ..just want to be sure, before I patch up the wall.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#407: Author: dkerr, Location: Ottawa Ontario Canada Posted: 22 Sep 2002 11:13 am
----
If you are stuck, chances are you will get away with it running close by for 10 feet, just don't tie the cables together with ties, and the only place it will be really tight togeter is the 2" inches where it actually goes thru the stud/joist . The high current electrical cables are usaully the electrical 220v cables feeding the range, dryer, aircon system, so I would afford running your communication cables next to these. I usaully prefer wherever possible to keep communication wires a piece away from electical, I usally like at least 6 inches , but even a couple of inches is likley far enough from general purpose electrical wiring , further for high current wiring.
I think what you are refering to when you say you are only using 1 pair in the cat 5 cable is that you are using the cat 5 as a clean telephone connection to where your dsl modem will be connected to. The 2 wires you use must come from the same twisted pair. Have no breaks in your cablevision or cat 5 along the route, this lowers the chance of degrading or interference. Have good connectors on the ends of the cablevision wire, improper connectors or loose connectors can be a problem. If you put both the cablevision and cat 5 connection in the same box, and should your cable connection not be used, screw on a 75ohm terminator on the cable connection, this lessons interference or degrading when the cable connection is not in use.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#418: Author: handyx, Posted: 22 Sep 2002 10:20 pm
----
Got the cat 5 and rg6 fished from 2nd floor to the basement. What a job!
Thanks for the info about terminating the 75ohm cable connection
I can also disconnect it from the basement when its not in use.
should I hook up only one pair (red/green) to the phone interface,
or should I connect a second pair (yellow/black) even though I'm not planning on using it? As for staying away from the electric - how far ... 2 feet, 4 feet -- I was running parallel to it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#420: Author: Wgoodrich, Location: Indiana Posted: 22 Sep 2002 11:14 pm
----
The yellow black hook up is your choice. Hooking them in as your go leaves you a second line capability in the future or you can leave them disconnected and then you can go back through and connect them if you desire the second line at a later date.
The paralleling of electrcal cables for a distance longer than 6 to 10 feet is what you want to avoid. 6" away is fine for the distance from an electrical cable. You just want to run a different path with your communications cables than the electrical. When electric parallels communications for long distances in close proximity of each other [within say 6"] then interference can occur between the to cable systems that may cause you data or voice loss or low quality experience due to this paralleling that invited the interference between the two cable systems.
HOpe this helps
Wg
