Mariner power tilt problem

[joed]

1995 60HP Mariner with power tilt.
The tilt will raise the outboard everytime no problem. When I go to lower it the tilt pump motor will not always run. If I bump the switch up then down it seems to take off. I don't believe it is the switch since it reacts the same from the outboard or the throttle switches.
Also how full should the pump be with fluid? With the motor raised when I open the fill hole I can't really see any fluid. Maybe this is my problem. What fluid should I use to fill it?

[Roger]

Hi Joed, sometime ago you helped me with a oil sender problem so hope I can shed some light on this power trim problem. First your trim fluid level must be checked with the outboard in the full up position and engage your tilt lock. Remove the fill tube screw the fluid should be visible. If not you can add quicksilver trim fluid or you can use automatic transmission fluid type F, FA or use Dextron II. Ive normally used Dextron II in my Mariner 90 pump. I usually just put some in an oil can to top off the pump resevoir.
You probably know that the motor has a up trim relay and a down trim relay.
You will have three wires running to your pump from these relays. the blue wire is trim up, the green wire is trim down and black of course is ground. From the switch to the down relay is a green/white wire this should have 12 volts at the relay terminal when the down switch is engaged. You will also notice that there is a black ground wire for these control circuits that is common between the two relays. The top of the relays have two terminals for the battery power (large red wire)and power to the pump via the green or blue wire. When you engage the trim switch the appropriate control circuit closes these contacts. Once you see these relays I think the way it works will be clear to someone of your skills. My guess is a poor connection with the green wire or problem with the green wire or problem with ground wire connection on the down solenoid. I agree that it doesnt sound like a switch. It could be bad solenoid you might want to give a voltage check to the down solenoid green wire with the switch asking for down trim and the pump not running. On some models there are bullet connectors about half way between the pump and the soleniods on the blue and green wires might want to check the green wire for good connection. Hope this helps. I might be able to post the schematics for the trim circuit if you need them. Good luck

[joed]

Thanks
That is very useful info. I was not aware that relays controled this. I am aware of the relays under the engine cowel. Now I know what they are for. I will print this off and check this out on the weekend. The boat is at the cottage. I'm sure you are probably correct about a contact or connection on the down relay being my problem.
I will post back on Monday and let you know the results.

[Wgoodrich]

I may have missed this being said but commonly the points of that relay get pitted needing a file to clean the points of the relay. I suspect this to be your problem. Relays with motors like this one has a heavy start load causing arcing then the relay points are pulled together to make contact. Pitting occurs in those points. Easy to fix just shine them up. May be a loose wire but I am leaning on the points of the relay if the relay is not sealed. Boats often have corrosion in the wires as discussed above making a bad connection of the wires. Also remember ground wires, black are the only source of ground. Boats are nonmetallic not like a car frame.

Good LUck

Wg

[joed]

I managed to get the down relay apart and cleaned the points. It seems to be working fine now. I also noted that with the UP relay removed the down would not work. So I think I could have a problem in either relay. If I have any more problems I think I will just replace them both. I wonder how much that will cost.

[Roger]

Glad you have it working Joed. I didnt know that the relays wouldnt work if one or the other is removed....interesting. I wonder if its the common ground ground wire between them? I also didnt know that these relays were serviceable. Mine look like they are sealed...hopefully I'll never lhave to find this out. Good fishing and boating to ya

[mdshunk]

I don't know about power tilts, but it is normal for a set of reversing relays to work "together". The power normally goes through a set of normally closed contacts in one relay before going to the normally open contacts on the other. This way, one relay can't "stick" on and then if you went to use the other direction, the device would trying to go in both directions at the same time. This arrangement that you observed is a safety used in lots of things that "reverse".

[joed]

I sort of figured as much.
Thanks