*OneBetter
December 11th, 2003, 11:06 AM
Posted by: OneBetter
Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2002 12:29 pm
Hey there! I'm just looking for a little bit of help here! I've got a 1990 Pontiac Sunbird and I dont seem to be leaking oil at all, but everytime the car is idling the oil light comes on, but then when i hit the gas it goes off, so i'm not to sure if its just the oil pressure sensor or if its the oil pump thats gone, is there anyway to figure this out? thanx!
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#194: Author: transfer, Posted: 12 Sep 2002 11:13 am
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Posted by: Wgoodrich
Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2002 11:19 pm
Cars are kind of like women about the time we figure them out we find we didn't know anything from the start.
Good news is your engine is definitly running.
Bad news is most likely you are in need of a valve job I suspect. What I believe is happening is your valve guides, rods, etc. have enough wear to create less back pressure allowing the oil pressure to drop. Then add in a set of valves that are needing to be reset having bypass losing some compression and you have a low idle condition that just can't be fixed properly without increasing the compression and new plugs. Once your compression comes back up and you have good spark your engine will smooth back out and allow your idle speed to be more accurately read by your electronic sensors and your throttle control system.
Before you do anything just for giggles try letting your car idol for a few minutes then watch your tail pipe and gun the engine from idle. See if you have a puff of blue smoke come out of your exhaust. If so it kind of adds to validate what I am thinking. You can do a compression test but suspect you have enough miles on the engine that you need a valve job which most likely will solve your concerns.
Let me know what you find and good luck.
Wg
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#195: Author: transfer, Posted: 12 Sep 2002 11:15 am
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Posted by: AnAnoymousParty
Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2002 5:08 pm
Wg's diagnosis sounds like what I'd say, what's your idle speed, BTW? Low idle speed can cause this too (pump's just not spinning fast enough to create sufficient pressure.)
The real question is what exactly the oil pressure is anyway. Anything > 10 psi is probably OK, but you can't tell that by just the light. What engine is it? GM 60 degree V-6's (2.8's esp) are notorious for worn valve guides after high mileage (the puff of blue smoke at start-up effect). If it's the 2.5 4cyl 'iron duke', I'd recommend getting it to a shop for a real pressure test -those motors are not at all tolerant of lack of oil (lot's of burned up Fiero's attest to that).
Meanwhile, you could try a higher viscosity oil, say straight SAE 30 or 40, the thicker oil will help you build better pressure in the face of wear; but, eventually you are going to have to start having to treat the problems over the symptoms.
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#196: Author: transfer, Posted: 12 Sep 2002 11:16 am
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Posted by: Wgoodrich
Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2002 5:38 pm
Anoymous, you make for sound advice. Glad to see you giving your knowledge on this subject.
Wg
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#1079: My crap car! Author: OneBetter, Posted: 24 Oct 2002 07:18 am
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Hey guys! I was the first one to post that message, just forgot i had it in there but anyways, it is a 2.0 litre 4 cylender peice of crap its been a couple months now and its still doin the same thing, if i drive to work which is about 2.5 kilomiters, you can really smell oil burning badly, but i'm not leakin any oil, i use 10w-30 all the time, and everyone i have talked to just say its the oil pump, but i'm hopin its not, if u guys can help that would be great, remember its a 2.0 V4
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#1088: Author: dkerr, Location: Ottawa Ontario Canada Posted: 24 Oct 2002 12:52 pm
----
I am not speaking from a auto mechanics point of view as Iam not. But have done a lot of my vehicle repairs over the years.
An oil pressure and compression test could tremendously narrow down the cause.
Possible causes:
leaking head casket
worn valves / valve seals
oil pump
worn rings
If you are smelling burning oil, it should be an indication that is not just a sensor problem.
10w30 is fine, most people use 5w30 or 10w30, often depends on your location & degree of winter you experience.
It is the kind of thing that you could lose a engine over, it might be advisable as soon as possible to at least have it checked at a respected automotive repair facility, it doesn't mean you have to spend large sums of money repairing it, but at least you will knwo what you are up against. The car is 12 /13 years old, so things like this can happen especially if high mileage and depending on well it was maitained over the years. Cars can last a long time if they are maitained properly over the years, or they can be at the wreakers within the first 5 years.
Hopefully other views, will come forth with more info for you.
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#1093: Author: Wgoodrich, Location: Indiana Posted: 24 Oct 2002 03:44 pm
----
If you first start the engine and gun the accelerator and see a puff of blue smoke out the exhaust chances are a valve job is in order. Compression test as Don suggested should confirm this if true.
It may be a simple as a valve cover leaking enough oil to soak the exhaust pipe causing the burning oil smell. Simple installation of new valve cover gaskets may solve your problem.
As Don suggested the tests mentioned compression and oil pressure test should give you answers to what you seek.
Let us know what you find.
Wg
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#2900: Author: 1CleanFinger, Posted: 24 Dec 2002 07:50 am
----
Everyone here so far has given you some good advice, and I have one for ya to check any internal combustion engine thats suspected to have a valve(s) problem. If your car presently still can start and idle take a piece of paper from your printer start the engine get out and hold the paper flat over the end of your tail pipe. What you are exspecting see is the paper flaping from the exhaust coming out. Now if at any moment the paper gets sucked on to the pipe, you have a valve problem. Personally unless you wish to spend the time and the money on tools in this rapidly changing industry GOOD LUCK. If checking the basics doesnt lead you to the answer, like with everything else take it to a respectable repair facility. If you need to find one close to you no matter where it is you are living I can help. OH YEAH, Cars are like women their all the same but different. They all stop and go, come in a variety of sizes, some are faster than others,-You get my point.
The email if your serious about the assistance groove-cmech@att.net
Heres one to put a smile on your day; How can you tell if a mechanic has just had
He'll have 1CleanFinger.
Web master administrator guy I apologize if that was abit much.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#2926: Author: Wgoodrich, Location: Indiana Posted: 25 Dec 2002 12:35 am
----
I suspect that goes for others that are not mechanics too. Ha Ha.
Now we know where you got your nickname.
Enlightening and LOOKS clean anyway !
Wg
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#11182: Author: Toolguy, Posted: 24 Sep 2003 02:28 pm
----
I think you guys may be overlooking a simple problem. I had exactly the same thing happen on a 1992 Cavalier 2.2 litre and it turned out to be the sensor.
It could be more than that, but I'd definatley start there.
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#11537: Author: TomB700, Location: Ft. Mill, SC Posted: 04 Oct 2003 01:30 pm
----
I'm a little puzzled about suggestions to check for burning oil...the oil pressure sensor only reports oil pressure being delivered to the engine by the oil pump.
The suggestion that the sensor may be faulty is a good first step, and a new sensor won't be expensive. Easy to replace but not likely the culprit.
Most likely is that the oil pan is full of sludge-gel and the pump isn't pumping well at idle. At faster rpm's the pump can deliver enough pressure to turn off the light (about 10 psi).
The correct fix will likely be dropping the pan and cleaning it out, and replacement of the pump would be in order.
Did someone use a can of "engine clean" in the crankcase? In an old engine this step loosens crude and it all collects in the pan.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#11561: Author: Wgoodrich, Location: Indiana Posted: 05 Oct 2003 04:53 pm
----
I suspect age of car, smell of oil, light coming on triggered the check compression, engine wear, valve stem wear.
Low compression or by pass of valve and valve stem will all cause rough low spead idle causing engine to slow enough for oil light to come on.
Total picture said to me do a compression check of that engine to see what is there. Compression check if you have the gauge takes little time, costs NOTHING and tells you a lot if you know how to read what you discover in the compression test.
Just trying to explain why I jumped on compression test suspecting engine wear to be the culprit.
Wg
Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2002 12:29 pm
Hey there! I'm just looking for a little bit of help here! I've got a 1990 Pontiac Sunbird and I dont seem to be leaking oil at all, but everytime the car is idling the oil light comes on, but then when i hit the gas it goes off, so i'm not to sure if its just the oil pressure sensor or if its the oil pump thats gone, is there anyway to figure this out? thanx!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#194: Author: transfer, Posted: 12 Sep 2002 11:13 am
----
Posted by: Wgoodrich
Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2002 11:19 pm
Cars are kind of like women about the time we figure them out we find we didn't know anything from the start.
Good news is your engine is definitly running.
Bad news is most likely you are in need of a valve job I suspect. What I believe is happening is your valve guides, rods, etc. have enough wear to create less back pressure allowing the oil pressure to drop. Then add in a set of valves that are needing to be reset having bypass losing some compression and you have a low idle condition that just can't be fixed properly without increasing the compression and new plugs. Once your compression comes back up and you have good spark your engine will smooth back out and allow your idle speed to be more accurately read by your electronic sensors and your throttle control system.
Before you do anything just for giggles try letting your car idol for a few minutes then watch your tail pipe and gun the engine from idle. See if you have a puff of blue smoke come out of your exhaust. If so it kind of adds to validate what I am thinking. You can do a compression test but suspect you have enough miles on the engine that you need a valve job which most likely will solve your concerns.
Let me know what you find and good luck.
Wg
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#195: Author: transfer, Posted: 12 Sep 2002 11:15 am
----
Posted by: AnAnoymousParty
Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2002 5:08 pm
Wg's diagnosis sounds like what I'd say, what's your idle speed, BTW? Low idle speed can cause this too (pump's just not spinning fast enough to create sufficient pressure.)
The real question is what exactly the oil pressure is anyway. Anything > 10 psi is probably OK, but you can't tell that by just the light. What engine is it? GM 60 degree V-6's (2.8's esp) are notorious for worn valve guides after high mileage (the puff of blue smoke at start-up effect). If it's the 2.5 4cyl 'iron duke', I'd recommend getting it to a shop for a real pressure test -those motors are not at all tolerant of lack of oil (lot's of burned up Fiero's attest to that).
Meanwhile, you could try a higher viscosity oil, say straight SAE 30 or 40, the thicker oil will help you build better pressure in the face of wear; but, eventually you are going to have to start having to treat the problems over the symptoms.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#196: Author: transfer, Posted: 12 Sep 2002 11:16 am
----
Posted by: Wgoodrich
Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2002 5:38 pm
Anoymous, you make for sound advice. Glad to see you giving your knowledge on this subject.
Wg
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#1079: My crap car! Author: OneBetter, Posted: 24 Oct 2002 07:18 am
----
Hey guys! I was the first one to post that message, just forgot i had it in there but anyways, it is a 2.0 litre 4 cylender peice of crap its been a couple months now and its still doin the same thing, if i drive to work which is about 2.5 kilomiters, you can really smell oil burning badly, but i'm not leakin any oil, i use 10w-30 all the time, and everyone i have talked to just say its the oil pump, but i'm hopin its not, if u guys can help that would be great, remember its a 2.0 V4
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#1088: Author: dkerr, Location: Ottawa Ontario Canada Posted: 24 Oct 2002 12:52 pm
----
I am not speaking from a auto mechanics point of view as Iam not. But have done a lot of my vehicle repairs over the years.
An oil pressure and compression test could tremendously narrow down the cause.
Possible causes:
leaking head casket
worn valves / valve seals
oil pump
worn rings
If you are smelling burning oil, it should be an indication that is not just a sensor problem.
10w30 is fine, most people use 5w30 or 10w30, often depends on your location & degree of winter you experience.
It is the kind of thing that you could lose a engine over, it might be advisable as soon as possible to at least have it checked at a respected automotive repair facility, it doesn't mean you have to spend large sums of money repairing it, but at least you will knwo what you are up against. The car is 12 /13 years old, so things like this can happen especially if high mileage and depending on well it was maitained over the years. Cars can last a long time if they are maitained properly over the years, or they can be at the wreakers within the first 5 years.
Hopefully other views, will come forth with more info for you.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#1093: Author: Wgoodrich, Location: Indiana Posted: 24 Oct 2002 03:44 pm
----
If you first start the engine and gun the accelerator and see a puff of blue smoke out the exhaust chances are a valve job is in order. Compression test as Don suggested should confirm this if true.
It may be a simple as a valve cover leaking enough oil to soak the exhaust pipe causing the burning oil smell. Simple installation of new valve cover gaskets may solve your problem.
As Don suggested the tests mentioned compression and oil pressure test should give you answers to what you seek.
Let us know what you find.
Wg
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#2900: Author: 1CleanFinger, Posted: 24 Dec 2002 07:50 am
----
Everyone here so far has given you some good advice, and I have one for ya to check any internal combustion engine thats suspected to have a valve(s) problem. If your car presently still can start and idle take a piece of paper from your printer start the engine get out and hold the paper flat over the end of your tail pipe. What you are exspecting see is the paper flaping from the exhaust coming out. Now if at any moment the paper gets sucked on to the pipe, you have a valve problem. Personally unless you wish to spend the time and the money on tools in this rapidly changing industry GOOD LUCK. If checking the basics doesnt lead you to the answer, like with everything else take it to a respectable repair facility. If you need to find one close to you no matter where it is you are living I can help. OH YEAH, Cars are like women their all the same but different. They all stop and go, come in a variety of sizes, some are faster than others,-You get my point.
The email if your serious about the assistance groove-cmech@att.net
Heres one to put a smile on your day; How can you tell if a mechanic has just had
He'll have 1CleanFinger.
Web master administrator guy I apologize if that was abit much.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#2926: Author: Wgoodrich, Location: Indiana Posted: 25 Dec 2002 12:35 am
----
I suspect that goes for others that are not mechanics too. Ha Ha.
Now we know where you got your nickname.
Enlightening and LOOKS clean anyway !
Wg
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#11182: Author: Toolguy, Posted: 24 Sep 2003 02:28 pm
----
I think you guys may be overlooking a simple problem. I had exactly the same thing happen on a 1992 Cavalier 2.2 litre and it turned out to be the sensor.
It could be more than that, but I'd definatley start there.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#11537: Author: TomB700, Location: Ft. Mill, SC Posted: 04 Oct 2003 01:30 pm
----
I'm a little puzzled about suggestions to check for burning oil...the oil pressure sensor only reports oil pressure being delivered to the engine by the oil pump.
The suggestion that the sensor may be faulty is a good first step, and a new sensor won't be expensive. Easy to replace but not likely the culprit.
Most likely is that the oil pan is full of sludge-gel and the pump isn't pumping well at idle. At faster rpm's the pump can deliver enough pressure to turn off the light (about 10 psi).
The correct fix will likely be dropping the pan and cleaning it out, and replacement of the pump would be in order.
Did someone use a can of "engine clean" in the crankcase? In an old engine this step loosens crude and it all collects in the pan.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#11561: Author: Wgoodrich, Location: Indiana Posted: 05 Oct 2003 04:53 pm
----
I suspect age of car, smell of oil, light coming on triggered the check compression, engine wear, valve stem wear.
Low compression or by pass of valve and valve stem will all cause rough low spead idle causing engine to slow enough for oil light to come on.
Total picture said to me do a compression check of that engine to see what is there. Compression check if you have the gauge takes little time, costs NOTHING and tells you a lot if you know how to read what you discover in the compression test.
Just trying to explain why I jumped on compression test suspecting engine wear to be the culprit.
Wg