French Drain Tile working TOO Well

[Lincoln, NE Newbie]

Hello,
First time poster here, and I need some good advice or some suggestions to a water issue I'm having with my newer home.

My home is less then 3 years old, and I live at the bottom of a hill. Both neighbors have a higher grade on their yards, sloping away from their foundations then I do. Because of this, over the first three years, I started to develop sinkage and settling slightly towards my foundation. I have French drain tile system around the footings of my foundation, which leads to a sump pit in my unfinished basement. I live in Nebraska, where the soil has a high level of clay in it. All these factors lead to an issue where when it rains hard for more then 30 minutes, water starts to enter my sump pit at an alarming rate, and will fill up in less then 8-10 minutes. Apparently, the french drain tile works all too well.
I have two sump pumps in the pit (one as a back up) and the main one is hooked to a PCV pipe, which is directed out the side of my house, away from the foundation. The problem is, when it rains hard, the pump is running every 3-5 minutes. I have the sump pumps hooked to a battery back up system in case of a power outage, but I still do not have a good peace of mind that my basement won't be flooded if a power outage (which happens all too often in my new neighborhood) last more then 30 minutes in a heavy rain storm.

I just last week had the settling issue dealt with, and had a grading company come in and add large amounts of dirt around the most needed areas of my foundation, to improve the water drainage away from the foundation. I thought for sure this would fix most, if not all of the water issues. There is about a 15 foot area on the side of my house which the grading man felt didn't need any additional dirt, so that was left alone. However, much of the grass on the side of my yard was cut up, and laid back down, so I've been watering this area lately.

I used a 30 ft soaker hose yesterday in this area, and ONLY in this area, where there should be a good enough drain away from the foundation. I let the soaker hose run for 20 minutes, and much to my frustration, my sump pit started filling up in an alarming rate again, and the pump started running every 8-10 minutes.

I am just flabbergasted that this much water from a soaker hose can somehow be directed back towards my foundation, and that much water can be getting down the full side of my foundation to my drain tile. Watching the water just poor into the pit just doesn't make sense, but somehow, it is. It's not a leak anywhere inside the piping, because using the same hookup outside, running a hose to the front yard for 30 minutes yielded no water in the pit whatsoever. It's just this trouble area on the side of the house.

Now, after all that, he's my question. :) Can I install a shallower, 2nd french drain tile system in this problem area, leading to a channel or pipe, headed out towards my back yard? Are their any issues with adding a 2nd drain tile system several feet above the foundation footings one? If so, how would I go about this? How deep should I go, and how close to the foundation wall should I get? Any other suggestions?

Thanks in advance,

Frustrated in Lincoln

[xkvator]

if you put it next to the foundation, the water is probably just going to bypass it and percolate down to perimeter drain. the backfill may not be compacted or is porous enough to let the water thru.
i've seen where 10' wide plastic was layed down tapering away from the building to a french drain system. 3-4" river gravel was put on top of the plastic. probably could do the same and put at least 12-18" of topsoil on it, then grass. this would involve some digging/work.
might help to post a picture of the area.

[Wgoodrich]

I am guessing that the builder was thinking a little is good a lot is much better. I am having a problem with builders in my area now after they have discovered these perimeter drain systems work to protect the basement they now are installing 2' or more of stone around the basment wall. Little is good much more bigger stone bed is much better. Not so.

I am guessing your builder installed a huge stone bed around your basement.

You must understand that while a french drain is recognized by the IRC this french drain should only be used when you have a walk out basement or a basement with an area near the house where gravity drain can be installed to handle the extra water influx. A french drain is 2 or 3' of stone around the basment wall designed to leach out the ends of a walk out basment. All other drains around a basment is called a perimeter drain system.

I would dig down and discover how much stone you have around that basement wall. If you are half backfilled with stone you must made a super hiway for the surface water to drain directly into your basement drain system with the pump INSIDE the basement inviting flooding of that basement.

If this is the case I would dig out the excess stone to a point where you have only a 12" by 12" stone bed with a filter clothe located not more not less than 6" above the perimeter drain hose. Then back fill that basement outside area with dirt that will filter the water and better invite the 6" fall in 10' on the surface to shed the water away from the basement instead of into the basement.

Just my thoughts

Wg

[mdshunk]

you must made a super hiway for the surface water to drain directly into your basement drain system with the pump INSIDE the basement inviting flooding of that basement.
Not to hijack this thread, but this is related. I arrived one morning not too long ago to do a service change. When I cut the drop and starting working, the lady of the house came outside and asked me, "How long are we going to be without power? Harold is down in the basement with buckets bailing out the sump hole.". The power had been off no more than 5 minutes, and it had been dry for days. Funnier yet, the people somehow were under the mistaken impression that a service change only takes 5 or 10 minutes! I wonder what they thought they were getting for 2 grand? At any rate, we "borrowed" a little power for the sump pump. When I got to the basement a little later to do the inside work, I noticed that the sump pump kicked on every 3 minutes! Talk about water super highway!

[Unregistered]

I like your idea Xkvator. That might work in this area. I could probably get a sod cutter and take up all the grass in this area, lay some plastic down, and then landscape about 2 feet out, away from the foundation with rock, and then the rest top with soil, down to a drain tile just deep enough to cover with sod. I don't have a lot of money to spend on fixing this (I just spend $1000 on adding the additional dirt) so I need the most inexpensive fix I can find, without killing myself trying to do it. I know Wgoodrich's suggestion about digging out the excess stone would probably be the best route, but that would require digging down 12 to 15 feet to get to my drain tile. I don't have the resources or money to have that done. I need a quick and dirty fix.

My friend, who is a contractor actualy built my house for me, and I was around when they did the water proofing. I don't remember there being more then a foot or 2 of gravel at the bottom of my foundation, but it did come out away from the foundation over 2 feet, if I remember correctly. I didn't think it was very deep though.

Thanks for the suggestions gentlemen.

[DUNBAR PLUMBER]

If you are at the bottom of a hill, I would assume that your grade rolls off of the back of the house, no?


Water will always find its lowest point, and that would be the virgin ground the footer sets on, with the sump pump pit right there to take in all of it.


I would do a deep trench off of one corner of the home, daylight to grade, fill it up mostly with #2 rocks and cover them with poly before covering with dirt, making sure that you trench at least 2 feet deeper than the ground the footer sits on. My idea is sort of like Wgoodrich's but I am stating only digging at an angle off of one corner (lowest) from the house and digging a trench the size of a backhoe bucket.