WH replacement

[Jacksnap]

I'm going to replace my 40 gal elec WH as a preventive measure. It is working fine but is old and starting to make those 'oil can' noises. It is located in the laundry room, which is within the heated S.F. of the house and at same floor elevation (FL 1 level concrete slab) as all living space. The WH is the short model mounted on a corner shelf over the dryer; the top is about 1' off the ceiling.
Can I replace using the same location setup (as the short heater are still available)? Or, do I have to move it out to the attached garage, which is also slab but 4" below the living grade and has the usual drainage slope out to the driveway? Does later code address flooding, over the dryer mounting. etc.?

[mdshunk]

This current water heater location is not a prohibited location according to the latest code. It is obvious that a leak will cause damage, and a catch pan would be required by code. This catch pan is required to by plumbed to an indirect drain or to the outdoors. Perhaps a laundry sink or possibly the washing machine standpipe would suit in your case. You could plumb the drain pan to where ever the relief valve is plumbed to, but you can't tee into the relief line. It must remain full size and without any tees. The drain pan or the relief line may not be solidly piped into any drain. These must be indirectly connected (air gap), much like the way the washing machine hose hangs on it's standpipe. I can see this possibly involving some right ugly looking plumbing for you.

[Jacksnap]

Thanks. (See next post for pics). Now, the relief valve sits on top of the WH about 4" below the ceiling and is copper piped into the rear wall at the same 4" below ceiling. My main stack runs up inside that same wall. I don't know how the relief line enters the stack itself. I'll assume a copper to PVC fitting (or just an open hole in the stack :eek: ). I have been in that part of the crawlspace around the stack but never remember seeing any thing plumbed in the area, so it must enter the stack inside the wall the same 4" below the ceiling/crawspace level. I can't tell unless I tear out the plaster and rock. If my AHJ guy asks, I'm a terrible liar! What to do??
Next, the utility sink and washer drain stack sits between the dryer and washer. So, the drain pan (no pan now) can dump into either. Question is, the pan will be 2' above the top of the washer drain stack (which is even with top of washer backsplash top) and same above sink top, so can I drop the pan drain line straight down into the sink or washer drain stack (without any air trap like a DW would require) because the drain pan is above the level of waste backup. I'd free-air terminate it just a few inches into the top of the sink but if into the larger washer drain stack, I'd have to terminate no more than an inch above or else it'll be inside the washer drain stack. Can I do the same with the relief line if I can't leave it hooked into the main vent stack?
If I relocate to the garage, next to an outside wall can the relief line exit the exterior of the wall just under the soffit and blowoff to free air? Can I drain the pan to the exterior wall then into a small (safely built and covered) drywell just beyond the foundation? As you mentioned the plumbing in the laundry room not pretty.

[Jacksnap]

And next post..

[Jacksnap]

and next one..

[Jacksnap]

This last of pics...

[mdshunk]

Somebody that does this stuff every day like Dunbar ought to offer an opinion here. Myself, I think I would pipe the drain pan and the relief into the laundry sink. With your layout, I think you could do this neatly (especially if you painted the copper pipe to match the room when you're done). I must say that your relief valve piping arrangement is one of the oddest I've seen.

[DUNBAR PLUMBER]

MdShunk brought up some very valid points.



Codes are designed with "worst case scenario" in mind mentality.

Meaning, what can, will happen, case history proves it. That is why codes are implemented to create a "think before you act" mentality to the application at hand.



SO, anytime you have a water heater on a wood surface or in a suspended ceiling, you must do the following:


Pan under heater

T&P ran indirect to an open floor drain, or indirect into the laundry tub.


The worst case scenario of your situation would mean the water heater starts leaking, the wood structure that supports the heater would deteriorate, and now you have a water heater that is suspended by the water lines and the electric feed, a deadly combination of the two.


That installation is against code for one reason by itself; load capacity is well beyond maximum for the square footage the heater is......along with the potential for things to go wrong.

Yes, people disagree with codes everyday, along with certain applications in the home. I am sure it was installed for a space saver situation, which is great; homeowner can do whatever they want. Insurance companies know what is code compliant, and what is not.


It would be better if the platform was constructed out of 2X6, not 2X4.


The pan and T&P discharge relief line would still have to be dealt with accordingly.

Any licensed plumber that has to pull a permit on your water heater to replace it, will mimic the same rhetoric as mdshunk and I state.


Codes state the state usually carbon copy each other, therefore the same line of thinking between the two of us.



The cost to do the water heater to code is probably under $40.


The install out in the garage would probably save you money, those short water heaters are always more expensive than the common ones, and if there is a floor drain in the garage, you can run the T&P to within 6" of the floor.


Or, through the wall and indirect into the laundry tub with 1.5" air gap from the flood level rim of tub. (CL) Critical Level

[DUNBAR PLUMBER]

That 40 gallon tank alone is 120 lbs.


40 gallon capacity @ 8 1/3 pounds per gallon of water = 333 lbs.




Total combined weight:


453 lbs give or take 10 lbs



That is a great deal of suspended weight. That is how a plumbing inspector figures logic in cases such as these.

[Jacksnap]

The install out in the garage would probably save you money, those short water heaters are always more expensive than the common ones, and if there is a floor drain in the garage, you can run the T&P to within 6" of the floor. Or, through the wall and indirect into the laundry tub with 1.5" air gap from the flood level rim of tub.
Thanks for the advice. I'm sold it's going into the garage in the corner next to an exterior block wall (interior block exposed/exterior block w/1" cement stucco). Garage floor does not have drain (Florida) and sits at 2" above grade at that end.
No way I can get a relief line to that U.T. Can I plumb the safety valve discharge with copper down the interior wall, then through to exterior with free-air termination about 12" above ground. Can I discharge the drain pan with a sloping line through wall to outside?

[mdshunk]

I could be mixed up, but I'm thinking that if you put the WH in the garage you'd really not need a drain pan. There's not much potential for a leaking WH to damage much on the garage floor in most people's garages.

[DUNBAR PLUMBER]

Yes to both of those.


You might be allowed to run the T&P into the drain pan, then run 1" PVC for the drain pan out to grade within 4" of the subgrade turned down in form of a 90.


BUT< : Make sure you check with a plumbing inspector on that one. Some states will pass that, some won't.


If you do it in that fashion, might be less work. :p :confused:

[Jacksnap]

Thanks md and DB !!

I'll combine the WH with another permit I',m pulling and ask about the pan.
The corner will be a good fit electrically, also. It sits half way between the present location and the main panel. So, just have to pull the cable back to the new location and cut. Running new copper will be straight forward, too.
I'm adding a WH timer since I'm rated TOU (all usage) and have been manually flipping the 30A wall switch, at the WH, on/off.
Again, thanks guys!
Jack

[flitch]

Thats funny ! Must have been trying to prevent the W/H from flood damage or floating away.. The weight must be quite a bit on that platform. I see no eq straps either. Looks like a geico ad.