Drain Tile & Sump

[Greg]

Looking for information on installing drain tile and sump pump inside foundation.

[Wgoodrich]

Are you dealing with a basement or crawl space. Either way if you have a water problem the IRC requires an outside perimeter drain around your foundation outside. Try the following link that is the proper method of lowering subsurface water table to dry out a crawl space. There you will also be able to read the copied section of the building code requiring you to install that perimeter drain in wet conditions as well as how to do so.

http://www.homewiringandmore.com/building/index.html

Hope this helps

Wg

[Greg]

Thanks for the reply - I am building an addition to a home including basement and looking for information on proper installation of inside perimeter drainage and sump. Existing home does not have water problem - this is insurance.

[princesshb]

Hello,
My husband and I are also installing an inside perimeter drain tile and sump system. In our case it is literally the only way to do it, because of the way the house was set down (after it was moved here) and the way the basement was later added, among other things. We are having a hard time finding any information on this. Does anyone have any information on specs for inside perimeter drain tile and sump systems? We need to know soon. Thanks! :)

[xkvator]

OUTSIDE perimeter drains are a must. in addition you can put drains inside the same way as outside drains - along the bottom of the footer, holes down(sch. 20 S&D) or perf. ADS, crushed gravel(2B) up to concrete level, roofing paper over the gravel to keep out the wet concrete when pouring the floor.
Drill 5/8" holes in the bottom row of block into the cores(at the footing) and using 1/2" soft copper, insert pieces that will go from the block into the gravel above the drain pipe. this gives any water that penetrates the block an easy way out.
run all the pipe to a plastic sump pit.
DUNBAR PLUMBER mentioned a battery backup sump pump in another thread.

i saw a website...www.bobcats-for-hire.com that shows some pics of outside systems.
they use #3 gravel w/filter fabric. use smaller 2B if not using fabric as the silt will penetrate the larger gravel easier.

use a builders level(transit) to make sure your trenches/pipe have the proper slope.

[Unregistered]

Looking for information on installing drain tile and sump pump inside foundation.
Can you give an updated link for specific information regarding installing drain tile OUTSIDE the foundation. In particular, do perforations go up or down, how far should the pipe and perforations be above/below footing? I have water on the inside of foundation of a crawl space and trying to eliminate the source from the outside. I have a worker who believes the holes should face down. I think this will just promote the water being deposited around and under the footing as oppossed to draining away to a drain site. Any authoritative info appreceiated.

[xkvator]

The holes face down. You wouldn't want the water to have to rise 4" before being able to enter the pipe. if not using filter fabric, I spread about an inch or so of 2B gravel down first. then the pipe, covering it with a minimum 12" of gravel.
you shouldn't dig below the bottom of the footer...the dirt that's supporting the footer could push out causing your foundation to settle.
the bottom of the footer is below floor level and the perimeter drain will be the path of least resistance for the water to go.

one link to look at is www.spipipe.com - click on residential foundation drains - click on the CAD drawing at bottom of page to enlarge.
you can find alot of others by searching..."french drains" "foundation drains" etc.

[Unregistered]

Hi. We're in the process of building our home, and have a question regarding the installation of drain lines around the perimeter of our foundation. Ours is a little different, as the house if built on piles, and will have a footing poured on top of the piles on which will be built an ICF (insulated concrete form) foundation. The footing is not for support purposes, rather just a level base to start the ICF blocks upon. In between the piles is approx 6" of clean stone, then a 6" void form. The footing is poured on top of these void forms. In this case, how should I put the drain lines down, as they will be about 1' below the footing, and there is a continuous level of clean stone that goes under the footing. If all this makes any sense, and anyone knows what I should do, please inform me! Thanks.

[Wgoodrich]

Below is a copied section of the International Residential Code adopted as rules of law in most states in the USA. This rule applies to everyone of the construction projects mentioned in the above replies.

COPIED SECTION 2003 INTERNATIONAL RESIDENTIAL CODE
SECTION R405 FOUNDATION DRAINAGE


R405.1 Concrete or masonry foundations. Drains shall be provided around all concrete or masonry foundations that retain earth and enclose habitable or usable spaces located below grade. Drainage tiles, gravel or crushed stone drains, perforated pipe or other approved systems or materials shall be installed at
or below the area to be protected and shall discharge by gravity or mechanical means into an approved drainage system. Gravel or crushed stone drains shall extend at least 1 foot (305mm) beyond the outside edge of the footing and 6 inches (153 mm) above the top of the footing and be covered with an approved
filter membrane material. The top of open joints of drain tiles shall be protected with strips of building paper, and the drainage tiles or perforated pipe shall be placed on a minimum of 2 inches (51 mm) of washed gravel or crushed rock at least one sieve size larger than the tile joint opening or perforation and
covered with not less than 6 inches (153 mm) of the same material.

COMMENT;

If you build your perimeter drain around your crawl space or basement that has subsurface water as directed above you will have no problem with water.

A link to my article on our sister web site also owned by us is located below with pictures for good and bad examples. The holes really doesnot matter top, bottom, or all around the hose as long as the top of the hose is located no higher than the floor level of the crawl or basement.

http://www.selfhelpandmore.com/building/footingdrainage/index.htm

The above method and my article not only will artificially lower the subsurface water table causing wet crawls and flooded basements it will also artificially lower the water table in your yard where water tends to stand even if a large yard. This perimeter drain design is for gravity drain design where you have an area near you home lower than the hose installation. Works great solving water problems whether new structure or existing structure.

If existing structure you dig the trench about 5' away and not below the elevation of the bottom of the footer but at least below the floor of the area to be drained and you will solve long time flooding problems in old structures also.

I agree why in the world would you want to drain water into the basement to get it out of the basement? Drain the water away before that water can attack your basement by this outside perimeter drain design.

If you have an area that is flat with nowhere to drain by gravity then go to the following link also on our sister web site showing a cistern placed vertically with a lift pump to raise the water to surface and pumped to a remote location away from the structure. Only trick is buy a pump with enough gallons per minute rating to handle the amount of water being drained into that cistern with this pump rated for maximum lift by manufacturer to lift the water to the surface. This cistern should be dug at least 18" below the perimeter drain system with 6" of stone in bottom of cistern for clean installation. This allows the perimeter drain to work by gravity to the cistern then dropping the water into the cistern to be automatically pumped.

All the above is outside the basement to eliminate your inviting your basement to be flooded when the pump is installed inside the basement.

http://www.selfhelpandmore.com/building/cisternpump/index.htm

The above perimeter drain system works for crawl spaces and basements and may be pumped or by gravity drain as required. It works don't let some good old boy talk you into doing it the way it was done for decades. Remember for decades we all have been hearing horror stories after every heavy rain about flooding of crawls and basments. It is not necessary to suffer if you install the perimeter drain correctly where needed.

Hope this helps

Wg

[ChaseGizmo]

I am having a home built with a full basement in an area with a high water table so was very impressed with your article about having the water be pumped to a source other than an interior sump pump first to stop the water before it gets in the basement but I was confused and would appreciate some help.

The lot slopes towards the house and then from the house it sloped towards the drainage ditch by the street. The foundation will be raised up above grade and the lot graded away from the house.

Your article talks about a pump system in addition to the system going to the sump pump that will be put in the basement and I was confused as to are you taking about 2 completely separate drain frields that go around the house foundation with one going to the sump pump in the basement closer to the foundation as kind of a back up system and the other piping system on the outside going as a gravity feed into an external basin with a pump that which would pump the water out to the drainage ditch by the street.

THanks for any additional assistance

[Wgoodrich]

IF you have an area of land that's elevation is below the basement floor no pump is needed. Only a gravity drain outlet connected to the outside perimeter drain and stone bed. The perimeter drain will pick up subsurface water and drain it out on top of the ground where it is below in elevation than the basement floor.

There is no requirement for a basement sump pump at all in a cement or masonry basement. You may install one but the sump pit should be without holes that would invite subsurface water to enter the basement.

You are trying to build a swimming pool backwards keeping the water out of the basement not in the basement then pumped out.

If you are on level ground without fall below the floor elevation of the basement then you install a 16" plastic pipe veritcle when the basement trench is open and while installing the perimeter drain allowing the perimeter drain to fall into that vertical cistern pipe then a pump is dropped to a point about 18" below the entrance of the perimeter drain pipes entering that cistern to pump the water to the surface and then gravity drain again out to day light on top of the ground. This stops low land from flooding back into the basement and limits only water seeping along the floor and wall into the basement is something goes wrong allowing you time to replace you pump outside without flooding your basement inside.

Hope this helps

Wg

[gvran71]

I have been told that my seepage issues in my basement are due to a clogged interior drain tile system? House was built in the late 60's with a perimeter system connected to a sump. Is this a major job? What is involved?
Hope I posted in the correct forum.

Cheers

George