Basement digout wall leaks!

[Bluff'er]

I just purchased a split level ranch that was recently renovated. The basement was dugout about 1'6" to increase the clear height. The basement was part of the renovation and 3 of the basement's walls are new. I am having a problem where the new foundation meets the old foundation. It recently rained here in Chicago for 2 days of constant drizzle to moderate rain. The mechanical room is the only unfinished area of the basement and is part of the old house butting against a crawl space. There is a sump with 3 pipes emptying into it. 1 is from a floor drain in the walkout area and I beleive the other 2 are drain pipes from either the interior or exterior of the new foundation. The construction elevations show a pipe on both sides of the foundation however there are many differences between the record drawings and the existing conditions.

During the rain storm 3 areas were leaking water. 2 of the areas were at the bottom of the old foundation. 1 was 3/4 of the way down the old foundation wall. I called a basement waterproofing company and they suggested cutting the slab and installing a drain tile and connecting it to the sump and coating the wall with plastic to direct the water from the leaks to the new drain tile. This doesn't sound too smart to me. The company rep. didn't even look outside to see if anything could be done outside to improve the situation.

I am moderately knowledgeable about construction but relatively hands off. How should I best diagnose and solve this problem? WG HELP, please!"

[Wgoodrich]

Buffer Sorry for being so late in replying but the fish were calling up north and I had to go.

I am providing a link to a post that is much similar to what you discribe. Your area seems to love installing drains under floors inside the footers. To me this is a bad idea. The link below is an in depth discussion of much of what you are looking at too. On my last post on page three of that discussion I provided links to a very informative document that should help back up what I have said during that discussion. You probably will learn a lot from much differring opinions from your area totally disagreeing with my knowledge on the subject.

http://www.selfhelpforums.com/showthread.php?t=17458

Hope this helps

Wg

[Bluff'er]

WG
I hear ya on this fish...when they are a callin' you've GOT to accept the charges!

In your absence I have read a lot of theories that are floating around including the specific thread you have included. I forgot to add a note about the site topography. My house is located on a mild grade. The leak side of the house is on...you guessed it... the run off side from the higher neighbor. Their downspout points directly at my house. About 1/4 of their roof is on this spout. There is only 14' between our houses. The area on my side of the fence is moderately flat and dished out a bit in the center. Right where the leak is occurring and the separation of the old foundation and the new. A perfect bucket for water. I have contacted a landscaper based upon a thread in the "ask the builder" website (http://www.askthebuilder.com/721_Trench_Drain.shtml) That website talks about digging a trench drain tile about 5' from the foundation at a depth of 2' to control runoff such as in my scenario.

The landscaper was in agreement that a trench drain about 5' from the foundation at 2'-3' in depth, with a couple of 90's tee'd into it going to my foundation would do wonders for removing the water and transporting it to the backyard which is about 3' lower than this "gangway."

I am totally against the interior draintile and will not venture that path. Would you recommend any additional scope to this?

Incidentally at this time I am trying to avoid installing a footer depth drain tile on the old foundation since the depth is probably around -6' and this is the side of the house with ALL of the utilities.

Thanks
Hope the fishing was awesome!

Bluff'er

[Wgoodrich]

From what you discribe it looks like the gutter of the neighbor may be your added problem. Doubt much help will occur from a 2' subsurface drain in the center. The reason I say this is the water when perking into subsurface soil will spread throughout the soil and the 2" deep drain will only catch a small part of that passing water to deeper subsurface levels. I do suspect if you look you have a flat or negative slope from the low part of the swale between the two houses. Keeping the water rushing off the area on the surface before it perks much is the desired design. This is why the building code requires a minimum of 6" of fall in 10' away from the house to keep the water away from the house. If the water flows against your foundation this is where most of your problem would be. Reason I say this is earth shrinks away from the foundation leaving a small crack between the earth and the foundation making a great funnel for the water to follow your foundation down to where it attacks your basement. I would confirm you are flat or sloping toward your foundation. If this is true then instead of digging down and installing the 2' deep drain I would revamp the bottom of the swale to outlet into that lower area in your back yard and add top soil from the bottom of that swale to your house making a bigger slope so water from your neighbor readily flows to the lower back yard area on the surface instead of flowing against your house foundation giving the neighbors water shedding an easy path to other than your house foundation being the lower part of your yard where it can spread out and slow down the attack of your basement walls.

Just my opinion

Wg:thrasher:

[Bluff'er]

WG
Thank you for your input. Ok. Let me recap. It would not be wise to install a trench drain 5' from the foundation at a depth of 2' because it would essentially be too deep. I can understand this since the water is literally only flowing a max of 14' laterally from the neighbors house to mine. I do no know at what rate water perks vertically. I assume that it is dependent on site characteristics. This is a very mature area and I am sure the subsoil is probably more clay-like as is usually found in Chicago.

The one problem I have with implementing your suggestion is that the top of my foundation wall is only 1-2" above the soil. Yes you are correct the grade is about flat. I am going to have a perimeter drain installed at a depth of about 2' against my foundation. The contractor says he will put a water proof membrane against the foundation and have it mold to the bottom of the trench where the perimeter drain will form. The reason it can't go deeper to the footing is because of all the utilities and it would probably be a 6' dig.

The contractor is going to take the spoils and create a proper slope away from the foundation as well as drop the grade a few inches deeper than it currently is.

Should I also have him install a shallow drain tile 12" deep right on my property line to catch the horizontally flowing water?

Thanks for all of your consideration

[suemarkp]

What you're doing may work and can't hurt -- it depends on the water source which no one can see. But if you have leaks further down on the wall, your 2' deep trench may not be doing enough. I'd go as deep as you can possibly go on the side of the house (even 3', and dig by hand around conduit and pipe entries). Backfill this with drain rock all the way to the top (preferably no dirt on top, just rock).

If this fails, you may need a trench somewhere between the basement wall and the neighbors property line. Hopefully, there is some pathway with no utilities where you can dig down 6'. I'd then fill the whole 6' trench with drain rock with the perforated pipe at the bottom and filter fabric on the top and sides. This then needs to drain to your lower back yard, and hopefully to daylight.

But hopefully, what you're doing is enough and you won't have to get this drastic.

[Wgoodrich]

If you can reshape your finish grade so your house sheds surface water to about halfway to the neighbor's house then your neigbor reshapes his surface to shed from his house meeting your drainage in the middle staying on the surface then the slough or low dip in the earth shaped to drain to the back yard most of the water you are experiencing should be redirected to the back yard before it has a chance to perk much. This would greatly reduce problems you are having. Chances are if you are having problems your neighbor is having problems also. A joint effort to reshape making a swale to shed surface water to the back yard should address most of your problem you are discribing.

Just my opinion

Wg

[Bluff'er]

Thanks for the suggestions.

I have a problem with the regrading due to existing conditions. The downhill path to my back yard is blocked by a large pine tree that prevents the landscaping for being knocked down. The tree trunk is only about 10" from my house. The tree roots look like they have been cut inorder to fit the new foundation right next to it. Can I pipe a drain tile through the roots?

I do have water coming in near the bottom of the wall. I believe it is because the water flowing is being captured by my house and the downhill tree and causing it to soak down instead of out. I am not certain.

It's also hard to regrade because the property line has a fence. The neighbor is probably not experience this issue since the portion of their house that is adjacent to mine is their garage that obviously doesn't have a basement.

I appreciate the feedback to help me think this out.

[Wgoodrich]

That tree should go. Many times I have seen sidewalks, foundation walls, footers and even basement walls broken and destroyed by tree roots from a tree planted that close. I would pull that tree up by the roots and replant a new tree a safe distance from the house.

The tree you discribe is young enough it should be able to take a reshaping of the yard and the tree will regrow new roots in the new shaped soil. You really don't have much other choices other than create the swale due to the closeness of the two houses. The water need redirected as discussed previously even if harder to do. Remember taking an easy route to address a problem most often leaves you wishing you had not opted for that easier route later.

Wg

[Bluff'er]

Ok, here we go again!

I received a tree permit to remove the troublesome tree. If all goes well it will be down tomorrow. Hopefully this will allow me to install a french drain to daylight into the back yard. I would like to know what the best way to install this trench drain.

I have AC compressors electric and gas service along the exterior wall that leaks. I was considering a trench drain that is about 4'-5' from the foundation.

Can anyone provide me first hand knowledge annd expertise on this type of project?

Thanks!

[Wgoodrich]

I would use a mini excavator or mini backhoe that can be rented in your area. Dig a trench about 12 to 16 inches deep halfway between your house and your nieghbor's house. Then use the push blade of the rented equipment to feather the lay of the land so the surface water sheds away from your house and nieghbor's house toward that low area where you dug the trench. What you have when you finish is a swale like a V draining the surface water from each house foundation to the swale that is sloped downhill to the low area of your yard so the water rushes away from both houses.

Wg