Footer drain

[jdlweb]

I had a small leak in the basement wall so I did some searching and figured I would dig up to the footer and seal the walls (they appear to have a coating of maybe hydraulic cement on them) Upon digging I found no drain pipe at all. My basement does have a sump and pit in the back corner. Am I not digging deep enough to find the pipe or what? Now since I have dug up the front of the house, then water is rising in the hole. It does not appear to be draining to the sump. Any ideas of what they are using in this to get the water to the sump?

[Wgoodrich]

Look inside the sump pit for one or two 4" holes in the side of the sump pit. If you have no holes in the side of the sump pit then go outside and dig down to the same level as the bottom of the footer. Any perimeter drain is required to be placed at the footer depth so that the top of the drain is no higher than the basement floor. Reason to look both inside the sump and digging down outside to the bottom of footer depth is the best perimeter drain is a drain that drains by gravity to a drop off of land where the grass elevation is below the basement floor elevation.

If you find one or two holes in the side of the sump pit and you find not hose around the outside perimeter along the footer then most likely someone took a short cut and placed hoses below the basement floor. This design will work somewhat but the water outside the footer must get high enough subsurface to force that water down below the bottom of the footer to get inside the footer perimeter then get to those hoses placed under the basement floor. This design will invite water seeping above the basement floor into your basement. That is why the Code requries the perimeter drain to be installed outside along the basement footer.

Check to see what you have then we can work from that knowledge.

Good Luck

Wg

[jdlweb]

Thanks for the reply. I do believe that is how I am set up with the drain pipes on the inside of the footer. I do have two pipes coming into the sump pit.
The outside of the footer appears to have only been filled with gravel (maybe a french drain?)
Now here is my new question.
Since I only have a small amount of seepage on the (hill) side of the foundation, should I continue to dig around the two other sides (the fourth side I cannot access as it is a crawl space under an addition) and install a footer drain on three sides of the home? or should I concentrate on draining the front of the home where the water problem is leaving the rest as it currently is.
Also, should I wrap the foundation as well at this time since it really only appears to have a thin spread of hydraulic concrete on it now.

Thanks and any advise is really appreciated.

[Wgoodrich]

Where you found the gravel is probably where the perimeter drain hose is located. When you build a perimeter drain system as requires by IRC rules you place the hose on the outside of the footer so the top of the hose is no higher than the elevation of the basement floor inside. Then you are required to install a 12" x 12" stone bed surrounding that hose to increase speed of draining the subsurface water table. Then a filter cloth is supposed to be placed on top of the stone. Keep digging into the stone. Bet you find your hose there.

If you have a dry basement and only one wet spot most often you have a mashed hose at that location or the hose lifted up causing a hump where the wet spot is located during initial installation.

Confirm the hose is in the stone bed as suspected. Then get back to us.

Wg

[jdlweb]

OK WG
I have dug in the back near where the sump pit is. I have dug out about 10 inches below the top of the footer. No pipes tubes or hoses exist on the outside of the footer. I also see nothing going into the house to the sump pit. I am going to have a problem running to daylight as my low point on the land is not really low enough, or is very close to not being low enough. I would end up in a drainage ditch (very near the base of it too) that often has standing water in it. Man I am really beginning to think this was a mistake to even mess with this. I am really stumped as for what to do. I don't see how I could put any type of mechanical pump in it as we are in NW Pennsylvania and we do get frozen tundra for about three months. How do you think I should proceed from here? I am wiling to do anything at this point.
One more odd thing I found was that the footer had forms around it (wooden) that seemed to be in place still for whatever reason.
Looking forward to your advise.

[Wgoodrich]

Those forms may be good news. Take a close look that the forms and see if there is slots in the sides of those forms. Also not if those forms are buried in a stone bed 12"x12" and a filter cloth on top of the stone bed.

They make a forma drain that serves both in forming the footer and stays serving as the perimeter drain system. I am suspecting from your comment this is where your perimeter drain system is located. The Code allows these forma drains and are popular in the industry. May be the answer to your puzzle.

Let us know if you find slots on the outside of the forms left in place that will allow water to enter the forma drain.

Curious

Wg

[jdlweb]

I did look close, there are not sly slots in the forms at all. Smooth as a baby's bottom. there also was not any sort of filter cloth as I have done much digging around and near the footer. although I have seen what may have been a stone bed at one time, it is basically saturated with silt from the layer of clay and dirt on top.
The water is continuing to rise in the front of the house and they are now calling it my "moat" and a bullfrog has taken up residence there (really)
I am going to pump it out tomorrow

I don't know if I mentioned that the home was built in 1970. I tried to contact the builder for possibly more information but was unsuccessful.
Would blueprints show what they did with these footer drains? I am going to continue to pursue information from the builder but they have changed to a "realty company" now.
Awaiting the next step.

[Wgoodrich]

When you were looking at the existing form still there is it wood or plastic. If it is plastic it almost has to be a forma drain. If it is plastic take a wire brush to the surface top bottom and side to see if the slots appear.

If you are chasing info from original building I would look to see how many basement wall contractors are in your area. Might be a chance one of them contracted that house as a subcontract to the original builder. That company may shed light on the history of the perimeter drain. The stone bed says intent of some type of perimeter drain in that stone bed. Many say the filter cloth will disappear over a few yeas. My understanding is the filter cloth is to hold out fines of the dirt till the dirt has solidified substantially before the clothe disintegrates.

Something in what you discribe yells there is some type of exterior drain existing now from original construction. The key is if that footing form is plastic or wood. Plastic almost guarantees it is some type of formadrain.

Wg