Deck ledger board on studs?

[DIY man]

I'm in the process of building a deck. For the purposes of this question it's actuall two decks attached to each other.

One deck is 14' wide and will be attached mostly in the traditional manner. Specifically 10' bolted to the house rim with the remainding 4' anchored into the foundation.

The second deck, which will be connected to the first, will be at a higher elevation. The issue I'm having is that it meets the house at the garage. This structure is the typical concrete slab with 2x6 walls at 24" centers, no house rim. I've read you can attach the ledger board to the studs but I'm not sure if this set up would be sufficient. This portion of the deck needs to support 7840 pounds.

If the studs are enough great. If not could I remove the house sheething box out the area between the 24" studs and add more short studs? Kind of like boxing out a window but a a much smaller level of 24" maximum.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

[Wgoodrich]

A stud wall is holding up your entire house structure roof and all. It can certainly support one side of a deck floor. You did not give dimensions of the deck attached to the house but a deck is considerd as 40 pounds per square foot live load. To know the wieght rating multiply the width time the length times 40 pounds. This is the total live load. Keep in mind one end of that deck is only carrying 1/2 that total live load. A ledger board is strongest when attached directly to the structure being you studs. Should be no problem just nailing the ledger board to the house studs. However if you attach to the house the posts on the deck has to be equal in depth to the bottom depth of your house footer to maintain equal potential to frost heave.

If you installed posts next to the house leaving say a 1/2" gap between the two structures then the deck would not have to be equal in depth to the house footer but is then an isolated structure of its own.

Wg

[DIY man]

Good point about the stud wall holding up the garage roof and all, plus all the stuff we crammed into the garage attic. I think I was more owrried about attaching the ledger board and hitting the studs in the center. I'll just remove the sheething, mark it well, replace the sheething, and attach.

As far as the total deck size. I'm looking at a 14'x15' deck on an inside corner of the house. A second 14'x15' deck will be a step higher and physically attached to the first deck. This second deck is what the post is about. The deck load I listed is for half of this deck at 80 PSF. The other half will be supported by a double 2x10 beam. I'm using 80 because this second deck is going to be fully covered with a roof. Almost a 3 season room but not quite.

To add a little more I'm putting a third small deck off the back of the second deck which will be a step down from the first deck. 16'x4' to accomadate the grill. Confused yet?

Good point about the footers being as deep as the house to equal out the frost heave. I'll look into that. Any guesses to the depth. It's in south central PA and the house was built 88 or 92 or somewhere around then.

[Fischer]

Around here ledger boards have to be lag bolted in on 16" centers. The best way to do that is with Ledgerlocks (trade name). They are equivalent to 1/2" lag screws, and screw in directly without predrilling with a 1/2" drill or with an impact.

Swift, simple and meets code. I don't believe nailing meets code any longer, but haven't got time to check code right now. Off to dinner.

[scuba_dave]

Inspector here also requires lag bolting the ledger - or thru bolting
Even on an interior ledger board for a cathedral to flat ceiling
Nails can pull out

Another site someone posted a pic of their deck
It was held in (in a corner) by nails only - it pulled loose from the house
No-one was hurt

[DIY man]

Thanks all,
I intended to use lag screws from the begining. I just assumed I'd have a house rim joist to screw into. When I found I would be screwing into a 2x6 with a 1/2 inch screw I imagined missing the center of the board, going in crooked, splitting the 2x6, or something bad happening. Especially if I "guessed" at the location with a studfinder. 'll check with the township inspectors about the centers. My garage walls are at 24 inches not 16 which you hinted might be the requirement.

The ledger locks seem O.K., easier to screw in. An option but I'm still leaning toward the Lag screws.

[Fischer]

Thanks all,
I intended to use lag screws from the begining. I just assumed I'd have a house rim joist to screw into. When I found I would be screwing into a 2x6 with a 1/2 inch screw I imagined missing the center of the board, going in crooked, splitting the 2x6, or something bad happening. Especially if I "guessed" at the location with a studfinder. 'll check with the township inspectors about the centers. My garage walls are at 24 inches not 16 which you hinted might be the requirement.

The ledger locks seem O.K., easier to screw in. An option but I'm still leaning toward the Lag screws.

After building decks for 40 years, I can tell you without a doubt that ledgerlocks are far superior to lags. You're also putting a smaller hole in your studs, they're ACQ rated and require no pilot holes and a whole lot easier to put in.

[Wgoodrich]

If the ledger board is treated lumber it must be fastened by a fastener approved for use with treated lumber. 1/2" galvanized lag bolts are approved for treated lumber but I am afraid even if you hit the center of the stud you will split that stud causing damage to the stud with less than desirable secure fastening with a galvanized lag bolt. The code calls for 1/2" lag bolts but are expected to be driven into the band board not the edge of a stud.

The fastener Puskins is suggesting if I am right is smaller in diameter which would address the probable splitting of the edge of the stud. However I am not sure it is listed for use with treated lumber. Maybe Pushkins can confirm it is approved for treated lumber in its lising and labeling. If so he has your best bet for a good mount.

Just my thoughts

Wg

[pushkins]

It wasn't me that posted the idea (Fischer gets the credit) but this is the info you need.
https://www.mclendons.com/img/products/11/11014050.jpg OLYMPIC
LedgerLock Screws
No pre-drilling.
Comes with hex drive bit.
Strong and easy.
No pre-drilling, they zip right in.
Faster, easier, stronger than 1/2 lag screws.
ACQ approved.
No washer needed, wide washer head for increased holding power.
Comes with 50 screws.
Dimensions 3-5/8 inches long, 2 inch threaded.
Material

[DIY man]

O.K. I checked into the ledgerlock screws after being pushed into it. Yes they look good. And certainly smaller than a lag screw. I didn't like the idea of splitting my 2x6's with the bigger screw. I guess this problem is fixed.

As for the lag screws vs the ledger locks in the typical leger board into a typical house rim joist which one wins? I'm guessing ledger locks.

[scuba_dave]

What is the main difference between the Trusslock screw & the ledger lock?
I can't imagine its just the washer?
They are bpth 1/4"
I have some trusslocks leftover & if I could use a washer & use them for an interior ceiling ledger board that would be great

[scuba_dave]

Ok, I just looked up the ICC specs & the trusslocks are actually stronger in all tests then the ledgerlock

So it seems with a washer I should be fine?

http://www.fastenmaster.com/Files/FastenMasterProductFiles/6/ESR/ESR-1078.pdf

[DIY man]

scuba dave,
You said you looked it up and found the truss lok was stronger. I'm not saying you are wrong about the strength but the two screws are intended for different purposes. I'm sure they would probably work for your intended use as long as you are carefull.

Have you or anyone else found literature on the installation fo the screws. I'm now sold on the use of the ledger lok for my deck however I don't know how to properly space the screws on the ledger board. All I found is how they are easier and all that. But where do I put them?

Also they sell 3 5/8 or 5 inch lengths. They say 2 inches should be in the wood. 3 5/8 - 1 1/2 for the ledger board and whatever for my sheething leaves me a little less than 2 inches for the grip. 5 inches would be fine for the studs, but would go through the regular houst rim joist.

Any reccomendations from the guys using these about the proper length.

[scuba_dave]

Actually with the shear strength & other tests coming out better it negates the intended use theory. If one is stronger in every test then the other, then their use is interchangeable. In fact the trusslocks are installed in a more demanding location - holding LVL beams together & then supporting the stress/weight

I think the 3 5/8 would be fine, they would penetrate 1 5/8"
The thread is 2" long - so that isn't a problem

The 5" would go 1.5" thru ledger, 1/2" sheathing, 1.5" rim joist
That would mean 1.5" would stick out of the rim joist
If the joists are parallel in this area then the rim joist should be doubled
But I think the prices are about the same

But if you are only going into studs I would go with the 5"

[Fischer]

Trusslocks are engineered for trusses and timbers, not for ACQ ledgers. Ledgerlocks are for ACQ treated wood.

Unless you can find a trusslock that specifically says for treated wood, do not use.

[Fischer]

Here's the phone number from Fastenmaster.

800-518-3569

[scuba_dave]

Yes - I found that afterwards
The ledgerlok have a different coating for outside use/PT wood

Proprietary three step coating process protects against corrosion, even in pressure treated wood. ACQ approved

VS the trusslok Spec:
Epoxy coated with anti-friction top coat. Corrosion resistant without risk of hydrogen embrittlement.

So - Trusslok OK for normal wood, but not PT

Thanks

[kurses]

This sounds like my project - cool!
Good info as always. Mine is 12X12 inside corner. Issue is one of the walls has no rim joist, was built with floor trusses - does have 12'' centres though. Was considering 4 inch ardocks on the stud side and bolt on rim joist. Sounds like the ledgerlock the way to go.

Here's another issue:
I would like to keep post holes at a minimum. The house's foundation sticks out 6 inches past framing (why I don't know) I can place a post on the foundation, tie to framing and allow for bolting deck to. Does a 2X10 allow for 12' span with this set up? FYI - it's 5 feet off the ground.
K

[suemarkp]

What are the 2x10's -- joists or are you building up a beam? In either case, a 2x10 is a bit weak for a 12' span, especially if you have high snow loads.

Perhaps you could support the 2x10's further in and have a cantilever (overhang) of 1 to 2 feet along with 16" joist spacing? Or, go to 2x12's.

If this is a beam, we probably need more details about exactly where it is and what it is bearing.

[kurses]

My bad,
the 2X10s are joists. So would 2X10 be ok for the 12' span that the joists would rest on? I like the idea to double up or maybe even triple! I bet they make a good hanger for that - to affix to the 6X6 posts I'll be using.
I don't think a cantilever would be that great as I'll only be able to have about an 8'' overhang. Unless that's a better way to support vs joist hangers?
Thanks

[pushkins]

If you bring the support posts in 2' to be 8' out from the wall you can still have the 10' deck you want, this is the cantilever Mark is talking about in his last post. That way the deck joists span a max. of 8' then sit on a beam (probably two beams) and then continue on (cantilever) another 2'.
The 2x10's can definitely span the 8' including snow loads.

[kurses]

unfortunately its a 12X12 deck. when I re-sheathed the house I built up the framing to tie in the post that's adjascent to the building (approx 12 feet out from the inside corner) not sure if that makes sense, but that gives me less than a foot to cantilever.
Kapeesh?

[Alzipski]

Regarding the initial question about attaching a deck ledger board to studs, I see it's covered in the Portland Oregon code here: http://www.sustainableportland.org/bds/index.cfm?a=260368&c=45053
See Figure 7, where it shows that between three and five 5" #10 screws are required in each stud, depending on span.

[Alzipski]

Sorry...that's three and SIX 5" #10 screws, depending on span.