Adding 120V to a 240V circuit

[Unregistered]

I recently purchased a home and the previous owners had a pool that they filled in and left the electrical running to the service panel. Also connected to this circuit are two timers, a flood light and one 120v recepticle. All this is on the outside of my garage. There appears to be a separate breaker in between the timers as I think one of the timers was used for the old pool heater/pump (not sure). Now in the garage there is are two outlets and another timer and also two lights on eitehr side of the garage door. During a home inspection the inspector saw that the 2 outlets and lights on ethier side of the garage were "double tapped" into the circuit breaker where the old pool stuff was. So the previous owner simply cut the wires in the circuit breaker panel. This circuit also runs the clothes dryer however I will be replacing the electric dryer with a Gas dryer so I want to be able to use the 240 ciruit to power the outside lights as well as the garage outlets, I want to remove the old pool timers. How would I go about tapping into the current setup if possible. Could I just cut the main wire that is running from the circuit box to the old pool timers/outlet/light and install a junction box and branch out to the garage outlets and garage outside lights?

[Ohm1]

Is this a detached garage?

[Unregistered]

Its a attached garage.
So here is what is currently connected (I first posted this at work so I did not remember exaclty what was there) from the 240v Dryer breaker (30/30/30/30) in the service panel a length romex runs out under the service panel along the inside wall of my unfinished garage then out the wall into it looks like a sub-panel? as this pannel has a breaker with 4 20 amps (20/20/20/20). from the left side of this outside breaker box is a timer, from the right side is an identical timer however on the right side of this timer is junction box with a outlet and switch, attached to the top of this switch is a floodlight.

Here is what was double tapped to the circuit inside the main service panel with romex going out of another hole in the bottom of the service panel: a timer, 2 outlets on the inside of the garage and two lights on the face of garage each side of the garage like (basically two porch lights).

How would I be able to use the outlets etc in the garage that are now disconnected?

The service panel is accessed on the outside of the garage.

[Ohm1]

If I'm reading you right: The garage has no power, but it's double tapped in the main service panel. What is it tapped off of? Do you plan on getting rid of the present devices (Timers, flood light etc) you have?


In addition, how much demand do you need for your garage?

Write back soon? Sorry so late! I have a big project coming up. :D

[6pack]

quest! (why not register?)
You say double tapped, per Home inspector? Your definition of what you have a bit vague. I see possibly two different senerios in what you might be saying?
1. Are you saying that this cable running to garage is attached to a D/P 30amp breaker(in Main Panel) and also attached to this SAME breaker is another cable or wires in a conduit leading to your dryer in the home?
2. Or as you have written 30/30/30/30 a possibility that a TANDEM breaker is installed where it should not be? I remember a panel(slips my mind the brand)poss zinsco whom had a tandem breaker in this fashion.
Anyways which ever you may have and what you seem to be wanting to know, can you use the cable running now to the garage where pool and some garage wiring is terminated? (correct in this thinking?)
If so, repost the size of cable (wire size) possibly #10 gauge, is this a 3 wire(BLK/RED/WHT) with a bare(aka-grounding conductor)?
If so! Yes you can undue and redue,(maybe) while using that same cable. You will need to reduce the breakers to a #20amp(2) s/p breakers. As I see it you need to repost those findings,exactly whats attached to the breaker in main house.(30amp) is this as mentioned poss a tandem?,where is dryer located now?how is the cable run from panel to garage, drilled in studs and up in joist pockets? is it subject to damage, does it run on the face edge of any members. These are all and poss forgetting a few things we need to know FOR SURE before saying yes you can use. Also how far a run is it from panel to garage? when getting to final recommendations maybe easier for you to just run new! Repost findings and we canhelp you from there on. GL

[NewOwner]

Hi All,
I think Wannabee's #1 is what I have, only I cannot see the wires running to the dryer, I will bought a gas dryer as there is a hook for this already installed.
Breaker in service panel the one with 4 green switches as is shown in the first picture below.

What I want to do is to remove the timer outside that used to run the pool equip (this is located on the left side and is the last pic shown below) and take the wires from there an rerun them back into garage to supply power for a new workbench I plan to build.

The cable that runs from the bottom of the main service panel to the breaker 20/20/20/20 box is black/red/white I dont see the bare one, but thie circut in th service panel has a bare coming out and is connected to metal bar (ground bar?) in the service unit.

I want to keep the outlet and flood light outside connected on the right is the last pic shown below.

In the picture that shows the wires coming out of the bottom of the main service panel (second pic), the one on the left is the one that was double tapped and is now cut, the one on the right runs along the inside of the garage to the outside and connects to the breaker box that has 20/20/20/20 breaker. Hope this helps in describing.

[Ohm1]

I would get rid of the disconnect outside, and pull that wire back into the garage. The question is, do you need 240 volts (dedicated outlet) for your work bench, or do you just need a few 120v (20 amp) receptacles for the bench? (Note: From what I see, you have a quad 30 supplying your dryer, and the outside disconnect. The quad 30 would have to go if you plan on getting rid of the outside disconnect. >>I believe you can use the 20 amp breakers from your outside discconect, for your inside service panel<<. From there, all you would have to do is run some 12-2 from the 20amp breakers to the outlets. Yet, this is assuming you can use those 20 amp breakers.)

Warning: If you are no comfortable messing with the panel, then find someone who is.

Or: You could use the disconnect box as a supply for power inside. Simply take down the timer box, and run a length of conduit and connectors from the disconnect to a hole in the wall--where you would have an LB serving the hole. Then from the LB to the inside of the garage, you would terminate your wires in a box, and jump power from there. If you plan to use two or more of those 20 amp breakers, then make sure your conduit is listed to have two or more wires ran inside. You may be able to come out the back of that outside disconnect.

Get back to us!

[NewOwner]

It sounds like the second option is easier, however what does LB stand for?

[Ohm1]

To describe: An LB has the shape of an "L". Conduit bodies with the cover on the back are generally called LB's. The removable cover allows you to pull conductors around it's right angel corner with little effort. (Note: the larger the wire, the harder the pull. Yet the removable cover on the LB helps you get the job done with less of a strain (or pain :D ).

LB's are considered mogul fittings, because of their sleek feature of the removable cover.

Maybe someone can paste a picture for you!?

Shop your local hardware, and they will direct you.

[Homer]

Here's the LB fitting that Ohm1 is describing.

http://www.jademar.com/Jadco_18.gif LB Fitting

Homer

[Ohm1]

I love you Homer :D !

Great pic! I'm going to place my order for a new computer today, along with a digital camera! I need to get with the program! This will also help you guys help me. As I said many times: "Being an electrician doesn't mean I know everything about the electrical trade. I have a lot to learn"! This is what makes our trade so interesting! It's the constant ability (expanded changes, and huge differences) to learn new things!!!!!!!

[6pack]

You need to give a few seconds to correct some visible violations(code) before you make any decision on what you plan to do.
1. I do not see timers as being weather proof!
2. outlet in box (outside) needs to be a GFI.
If you plan to keep the above items.
I still am loosing you(from what I see) when you say dryer also on this circuit.
Possibility your simply confusing the (shown) tandem D/P breaker with standard D/P breaker. A tandem breaker is ONE breaker in design(shape size) but gives you ability to have 2 circuits coming from it.In this case, 2-30amp D/P circuits.
Keeping this in mind, the center portion of that breaker is a circuit(240/30a) while outside breaker handles are tyed together with shown metal handle. Making this your second 240/30amp breaker.
The center breaker has a white wire connected, this tells me(if wired properly) that this entire tandem breaker is NOT just your dryer and outside pool wiring! Are you sure that one of these two as described above are possibly for a water heater or maybe an air-conditioner??
This is where I'm having a bit of difficulty understanding your explanation, when saying dryer also is connected with wiring leading out to garage& old pool area. I personally would like to see you starting at point A, being your Main Panel(in house)with your full understanding, before going on to point B your garage and old pool area. Since in picture's I do not see the dryer wiring and outside wiring connected together in any manor. These are my thought's (only) before you continue further. So your sure what your working with from the get go. GL my 2 cents. (prove me wrong I'll be happy for you)

[Ohm1]

I stand corrected on the Mogul LB. The LB pasted to this site is not classified as a mogul LB-although they have very close simularities. I was told that the mogul works better with heavier conductors. But, the LB pasted is the one you would use. Just a screw-up on description. Sorry! :(


I agree with Wanna on his concern of code violation (One being the non-phased white conductor).

I Would get a current tester (around $9) and start figuring out which wires belong to the breakers in question. Turn off the breakers in question, then do a test run on the wires with your current tester. (The wires in question shouldn't have in current on them). Now turn one breaker off at a time, then do a test run again. Once you've located the hot wire from that one breaker, then mark it, turn it off, then go to the next breaker (repeat). (Note: We a basically trying to find out what wires belong to which breakers.) You only need to mess with the breakers that have the wires you question terminated inside them.

Then we can go from there. Our original plan will work, but lets find-out what wires goes to what!