Hot water heater draining back to well?

[Chaiyz]

I live in a mobile home with a submersable pump/well. The pump exits to a 1" check valve, then to a t to 3 inline filters and off to the house , on the other side of the T is the switch and tank.

About 2 months ago my hot water stopped working, I called a plummer, he advised that I should replace my hot water heater. I didn't have the money so I called a friend who's now in IRAQ unfortunatly. He figured out within 5 minutes that my check valve was allowing the hot water to drain back dwn my well and he replaced the check valve. My hot water heater is about 4 feet above the well, about 75 feet away. Well, that fixed the hot water problem but then I had tons of sediment in my water and he said that my culligan system needed to be redone, so I just bypassed it completly, and that made life soo much better, hot water that worked and it was very clean, there was a little bit of air cmming from the hot water sometimes but wasn't a big deal.

Well, now it's a big deal, the hot water is running out of the tank at night while I'm in bed, I can hear it. Is the check valve bad again? Does my hot water tank have something in it to allow for the changes in air pressure? I'm not sure if I should be installing a check valve on the line in to the hot water heater itself as well as a new checkvalve for the pump itself. I can take any pictures anyone may want me to post I hust need to get this fixed as it's soooo annoying and runiing my clothes in the washer.

Chaiyz

[Fischer]

Sounds like you need a pressure tank and/or a pressure relief valve. When you empty or partially empty your hot water tank, and it fills up with cold water, the water expands and increases pressure in your system. The pressure tank allows for expansion. The problem may also be your pressure relief valve on the side of your hot water tank. If it's weak or old, it may just kick out when the pressure becomes too great.

Under no circumstances plug the hot water pressure relief outlet. It could blow and kill someone very easily. A pressure tank will also decrease the chance of having a blown line somewhere in the house.

[Gary Slusser]

I live in a mobile home with a submersable pump/well. The pump exits to a 1" check valve, then to a t to 3 inline filters and off to the house , on the other side of the T is the switch and tank.
Do the description again. It should be pump, pressure tank, check valve etc. etc. etc. Describe it inline in order from the well and don't leave anything out.

About 2 months ago my hot water stopped working, I called a plummer, he advised that I should replace my hot water heater. I didn't have the money so I called a friend who's now in IRAQ unfortunatly. He figured out within 5 minutes that my check valve was allowing the hot water to drain back dwn my well and he replaced the check valve. My hot water heater is about 4 feet above the well, about 75 feet away. Well, that fixed the hot water problem but then I had tons of sediment in my water and he said that my culligan system needed to be redone, so I just bypassed it completly, and that made life soo much better, hot water that worked and it was very clean, there was a little bit of air cmming from the hot water sometimes but wasn't a big deal.

Well, now it's a big deal, the hot water is running out of the tank at night while I'm in bed, I can hear it. Is the check valve bad again? Does my hot water tank have something in it to allow for the changes in air pressure? I'm not sure if I should be installing a check valve on the line in to the hot water heater itself as well as a new checkvalve for the pump itself. I can take any pictures anyone may want me to post I hust need to get this fixed as it's soooo annoying and runiing my clothes in the washer.
There does not have to be another check valve IF the the one in or on the pump's outlet is working. People add one when the one in the well or the drop pipe etc. leaks. That hides symptoms of a leak but doesn't solve the problem. So you have a leak in the well or the pipe from the well. Your pump may be running constantly because of the leak preventing the pressure to rise sufficiently to open the pressure switch. Drop pipe leaks can allow a pump to fall off the drop pipe too.

Your water heater can't have water running down the well IF the check valve is working. Probably the water from the heater is going out the T/P valve pipe. That could be because of a thermostat being stuck on which over heats the water causing excessive high pressure and the T/P opens venting the water out, and you hear water running.

[Chaiyz]

First, it's not water running out of the hotwater that I hear. It sounds like a water cooler in your house when you drain some water out, I hear the air bubble or air comming out. I'm not sure how it's happening so I will try to explain exactly how my system looks to me from the well.

The well has a large steel collar, and a pvc pipe that comes straight up and then turns a 90 to poing to the pressure tank. Once you are 4 inches from the well, there is a check valve, then another 10 inches further it makes a left turn to the house, but continues straight to the pressure switch and after another 20 inches is the pressure tank. So, if you have a T the bottom of the T is going to the house, the top right is my well, the top left is my pressure tank.
My well doesn't run constantly but my problem won't go away.

After reading your post, I'm wondering if my problem could be a leak just below the collar of my well.

If the water pump pressures up enough to turn off the pump but the checkvalve is working then there would be no water pressure from the pump up to the check valve, right? Would that cause my hot water to blow air for the first 2 minutes I try to use it in the morning and cause such dirty water? I'm soo sick of this house, my slumlord doesn't care at all.

I'm posting a couple of pics I took. Oh, by the way, I complained about my culligan system so much chat he came and bypassed it the same week he changed the checkvalve. The repair is rediculous looking.l
http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x305/Chaiyz/94A4/S6300525.jpg
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http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x305/Chaiyz/94A4/S6300524.jpg
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http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x305/Chaiyz/94A4/S6300523.jpg

Thanks for all the help,

Chaiyz

[Gary Slusser]

I have never heard a cooler in a house sucking air...

The thing you are calling a collar, it is a single hole sanitary well seal. The pipe it is in/on is the well casing. You should not need the check valve, there is one in or on the pump's outlet in the well. A leak in the the pipe coming up out of the well or the check valve in the pump, will cause air to be sucked into the water line IF that new check valve is not sealing completely and it is there to hide a leak in the well and to stop the pump from running because of a leak in the well. Or the air vent in the sanitary seal could be sucking air into the well after you have used water. That should be a blue plastic plug in the sanitary seal.

Your Culligan softener or filter is about 50+ years old.

[Chaiyz]

Well, the collar is not what I meant. If you look at the top of the well head, or whatever it's called, it has water on it. That blue plug in the pictures is actually broken and just sitting there. Anyway, what I was saying was that the pvc pipe exiting the well has a crack, I went out yesterday and saw it leaking when the pump was running, I replaced the elbow going into the top of the well all the way to the checkvalve and I hope I'm fixed. That blue thing was broken and looks like a plug, I have no clue what it is.

As I said before, I'm not a plummer, I'm just a poor shmo that works just to put gas in my work truck. My landlord is a slumlord and he charges too much for this piece of , well you get the idea. The only way to get something here fixed is to do it myself.

Thanks, I'll let everyone know if it's fixed after I've let it cycle for a day or so.

Thanks,

Chaiyz

[Bumblerazz]

I think you're right and the bubbling or gurgle that you hear in the hot water tank is air leaking in as the water is leaking out.

A crack in the pipe, or a crack anywhere will cause water to leak out and air to infiltrate. I think what you've described and repaired should stop your problem. Hopefully. Given the state of the system (based purely on the look in the pictures) I would not be surprised if there were other leaks.

Check your filters, as by the colour I would think your water has a lot of iron. I know from experience if you let air into a galvanised steel pressure tank and/or hot water tank, it will start to rust. Constant bubbling will stir that rust up and you will get nasty redish water when you first turn it on. By now the rust has lined the pipes, so it will be awhile before you get good clear water.

I should note, from experience again, that those filter cases will leak if they are too loose or too tight. You have to find the middle ground, usually hand tight is enough. If your lucky they have an o-ring which will create a positive seal.

The reason you get air when you turn on the hot water (probably a bursting splash if I remember correctly) is the exit from the hot water is usually on the top of the tank and, of course, that is where the air bubble will sit until released.

The best way to check for leaks is how you discovered your crack. Run a hose or wait until someone is having a shower to get the pump running steadily, and carefully watch the pipes for drips or fine sprays. Mark them and then repair when the pressure is released and pump is off.

[Gary Slusser]

Well, the collar is not what I meant. If you look at the top of the well head, or whatever it's called, it has water on it.
That is the sanitary well seal.

That blue plug in the pictures is actually broken and just sitting there. Anyway, what I was saying was that the pvc pipe exiting the well has a crack, I went out yesterday and saw it leaking when the pump was running, I replaced the elbow going into the top of the well all the way to the checkvalve and I hope I'm fixed. That blue thing was broken and looks like a plug, I have no clue what it is.
That crack being between the check valve and the well may have been allowing the leak in the drop pipe of the check valve in/on the pump's outlet to suck air into the line as the water ran back into the well. So now you shouldn't hear air gurgling. BTW, the blue plug thingy, it's a blue plastic plug...

Also, air in water rises and with water pressure in a water heater, you can't get air to be sucked into the heater but, any air in a water heater tank will come in with the cold water feed and then migrate out the outlet of the tank up and through the plumbing to a faucet. It can't be trapped in the tank.