Troubleshooting No Dial Tone

[moose]

My phones recently stopped working. I had the phone company out and they determined that their was dial tone to the house. I have read through the forum and it appears that I will have to check my interior wiring and/or jacks.

I have already disconnected my two phones one at a time - one wireless base station and one traditional trimline phone. I do not have any other phone devices. With either phone connected to several jacks, I do not get a dial tone, but do hear a background buzz on the line. This buzz was there when the phones were working.

My question is...I have about 20 jacks in my house and don't really know where to start. I can't imagine that a jack that has been sitting there unused for 15 years can be causing this problem. So I am thinking I don't really need to check those, but what exactly would I look for regarding the other jacks? How would I know if I have a short? I guess I could look for a disconnected wire on the others. It seems this is all visual inspection...correct?

OK...so why do I have so many phone jacks??? One of the original owners of the house was a Mountain Bell employee back in the day when you had to pay for every jack in the house. She must have gotten a discount as they installed jacks everywhere...in the garage, in the bathrooms, etc.

Any help would be appreciated!

[sloooo]

I have had to do this before. It is a pain, and yes, you will have to do it too. You will need to find where the phone line goes into the house. Disconnect everything that is connected to it, except the incomming line, and hook your phone up there. You should have a dial tone. Then from that point, you will have to trace out every jack and see where the connection is lost. You phone system works on a 50 volt DC circuit, so what your phone company see's is a short, and what your callers get is a busy signal. What you have is either a direct short or a lose wire. You'll need to go through every jack in your house and check the connections and make sure they are tight and clean. BUT, check that line coming into the house and make sure you have a dial tone, but make sure you disconnect the house wiring first. let me know what you find out.

[CraigFL]

If they are the standard RJ type, sometimes the very small wire connections in the jack can touch and short together. You will need to do a visual inspection of each one. When you do this, it's easy to pop off the plate and make sure everything is OK on the back of the connector too. If this doesn't work, you may have to put a signal on one wire at a time to see which one isn't working.

[joed]

Do you have a home security system? They will grab the line and not release it to the phones.

[moose]

you may have to put a signal on one wire at a time to see which one isn't working.

How do I do this? I am relatively handy, but do not know how to do this.
THANKS!

Also...do not have a security system or any other phone devices.

[CraigFL]

Something like this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/EXTECH-CT20-CONTINUITY-TESTER-REMOTE-MULTI-WIRE-ID_W0QQitemZ180077099738QQihZ008QQcategoryZ1504QQt cZphotoQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[moose]

I disconnected and reconnected the wiring from the demarc to the house...no change. I replaced one jack in my bedroom...no change. Replaced another jack in my bedroom...dial tone!!! Then I made a call from another extension. Had no problems with that call, then, after that call...no dial tone.

I pulled out, checked and replaced that second jack again...dial tone. Called the house from my cell phone...half a ring and then nothing.

Any suggestions?

[suemarkp]

The point of disconnect from the demarc is to test it from there with the house jacks all disconnected. If it doesn't work that way, the problem is outside your house and will drive you crazy by trying to fix it inside. If it is a modern NID, it will have a phone jack outside with a wire in that jack that goes to your inside wiring. PUll that jack out and plug in a phone in the NID jack. If it works, your inside wiring is the problem.

What type of cabling do you have -- a "star" type where a bunch of separate cables are all run to a central place and connected in parallel (best way), or a long run of 4 or more wires that daisy chain through the house going from jack to jack?

Since playing with the bedroom jack made things work, your problem is probably there. Can you completely disconnect that jack and see how things work (from some other jack upstream that is still connected)? It could be abraded wires touching there, a broekn wire there, or sloppy connections in the jack. If there are both wires coming and going from this jack, just use the incoming set and don't connect the outgoing set and try again.

You basically need to break you phone line into segments and find out which piece is shorted or broken. When your phone line is "broken", and you call from a cell or other house, do you get ringing forever or a busy signal. Ringing means you have a broken wire, a busy signal means wires are shorted together.

[moose]

To your points...
The phone company determined that there is dial tone to the house. The problem is inside. I do not have a modern NID.

I do not know for sure what type of cabling I have. It is all behind finished drywall areas (15-20 jacks). I think that it is daisy chain as the cable behind most jacks is continuous (1/2 inch stripped off to screw under the the jack screw). My house is 5000 square feet so it is hard to guess where the wires go.

If I could tell which way was upstream/incoming on the suspect jack, I would disconnect it. That particular jack has three wires running to it (hence my belief that it is daisy chain city). I completely replaced that jack.

I am trying to find the "first" jack in the house, but I am totally guessing based on what I have found so far.

I get a busy signal when calling the house. Someone had suggested that I could have a bad wire outside from the demarc into the house...that is why I disconnected, cleaned and reconnected that.

I really don't understand how I could resurrect the system for one phone call and then it does not work again.

[suemarkp]

At the phone jacks, what does the cable look like? Is it a bunch of individual small wires in a bundle, or a cable jacket with 4 wires? What colors are connected at each jack and how many phone numbers do you have (hopefully only 1 number). I'm guessing you have the bundle, as that is about the only kind where its easy to strip a segment of insulation and not have to splice wires.

Similar question at the NID. What type of wires are there -- individuals from a bundle or something in a jacket? How many different wires from the house attach at the phone NID (you need two to work, but is there more than one wire connected to a given screw)?

If you have the bundle of individual wires, these were often wrapped around a nail in the stud space to anchor them. If you pull too hard on them, the insulation could be abraded and the wire shorts on the nail. Working at a phone jack will pull on the wire somewhat, so that could make it work until it heats up or forms back to its old shape and shorts things out again. Jacketed cable is tougher and shouldn't get abraded, and with that I would remove every phone jack from its cable and trace out sections (if its separate cables) to see which cable goes where. Then add one at a time until things don't work (you'll need to start with the segment that goes to the phone NID. This will be the one that has voltage on it if all other segments are disconnected).

The big bundle is easy to fix, as you can just pick a different color pair if one is shot. This is the kind if wire my house has (or had), and all sorts of strange things were done at each jack jumping to different pairs. There was one shorted and two broken pairs in that big bundle, so I just had to find two wires that were good and used those two colors at every jack.

[TraderDen]

I really don't understand how I could resurrect the system for one phone call and then it does not work again.

im sure youve gotten this working by now, but by this statement above, it seems your only problem is the single phone set you are using when you get the dial tone 'resurrected' for one time is the one with the short. when you pick up the phone to make a call, you place a short on the line. when you hang up, the short goes away. im guessing this particular phone always has the short, so it will allow you to make one call. then you hang it up, the short remains on the line, therefore making it inoperable when you try to use it again. remove this phone and or this cord.